Breaking news, midnight - Peace in the Middle East?

The peace plan is for Israel and Gaza Whitewavemark2 I don’t think the West Bank is on the table as it were.

Not many pro Israeli views on show here to learn from.

Maremia

It's just awful for the peaceful folk who are stuck with such a leader for now.
Neither side to be trusted.
But Trump still has a good chance of the Prize if he can hold the line until January, and that timescale, short though it is, will give people a chance to survive.

Yes, I feel very sorry for the Israelis. Netanyahus rhetoric is extraordinarily unpleasant and war mongering. That is all he seems to know.

I do worry about the illegal settlers. Nothing as yet about moving them out.

ronib

I don’t think in the scheme of things that the flotilla has any kind of right to sail into a war zone. There are many more pressing issues for Israel to address. Disarming Hamas must be top of the list. There’s always a chance that weapons are smuggled in by the activists on the flotilla? Why would Israel risk it?

Just what I think too.
It’s just a huge distraction and extra work for the Israeli Navy to handle. Boats full of self righteous activists.If they had managed to land a few days ago the clans would have taken anything worth taking and the people themselves could have been taken by hamas as extra hostages.

Pro-Palestinian views are worth hearing, pro-Israeli views are worth hearing. Listen to both sides, and learn.

It's just awful for the peaceful folk who are stuck with such a leader for now.
Neither side to be trusted.
But Trump still has a good chance of the Prize if he can hold the line until January, and that timescale, short though it is, will give people a chance to survive.

That particular Observer piece is written from a pro Palestinian perspective only of course.
More pro Pal protests today even as there is a peace process going on in Gaza. Shouting and shrieking as usual.

I don’t think in the scheme of things that the flotilla has any kind of right to sail into a war zone. There are many more pressing issues for Israel to address. Disarming Hamas must be top of the list. There’s always a chance that weapons are smuggled in by the activists on the flotilla? Why would Israel risk it?

“Time will tell whether this ceasefire represents real change or if it is merely a tactical performance –another extension of war by other means. It seems more likely Israel will use this pause to bring itself some respite from the continuing global outrage and pressure, and redirect attention, only to continue its actions once international focus fades.
This is why the Palestinian struggle has never been solely about stopping atrocities; it is, at its core, a fight for liberation. For many, this moment is not one for complacency, but for continuing the work that Palestinians in Gaza, the West Bank, and in the diaspora, as well as supporters all around the world, started years ago.
Flotillas must continue to sail to break the draconian siege imposed on Gaza since 2007. Students must resume their sit-ins at universities and colleges. Journalists must persist in demanding access to Gaza to cover war crimes. Demonstrators must carry on with flooding the streets”
Observer 10\10

This is what I am fearful about. I simply do not trust Netanyahu. (Not trusting Hamas goes without saying of course) but I am keeping everything crossed that Trump still has the peace prize in his sights and as a result keeps Netanyahu in some sort of order. Although it will be interesting to see how long he lasts. My friends who have relatives in Israel say that there is a total split between the Zionists who support Netanyahu and ordinary folk who hate everything he stands for. So he has to go for election next year and I can see him warmongering in order to get support.

That's your view expressed and read Oreo, to which you are entitled, just as others are entitled to express their views.

Let’s hope they go for the easy way!

ronib 👍🏻

No

Maremia

I think I know that Posters have every right to phrase what they say in their own style.
That's what I know.

They have a right to say their opinion yes, and that includes me having mine too.
I would be interested to see if any other posters agree that Israel should only be called Palestine and that Israelis have no rights to be called that or even to be there?
Any takers?

“Hamas” will have to disarm the easy way or the hard way. I am a bit concerned about the “Gazans” returning to “Gaza”. They could so easily be caught up in the crossfire and chaos again in “Gaza”.

Meanwhile, the deal seems to be holding.

I think I know that Posters have every right to phrase what they say in their own style.
That's what I know.

Hamas are already saying that they won’t accept any foreign help with future governance and won’t disarm completely.
The main thing however is to get the hostages back and the food aid and medical aid lorries into Gaza.
The surrounding countries will then have to put more pressure on hamas.

I think you already know the answer to that Maremia
CariadAgain is the only poster on this thread or any other about the Middle East, to put quotation marks around the words Israel and Israelis to show, as she has already admitted that she calls Israel Palestine and the people “Israelis”as they really have no rights there, in other words that the State of Israel shouldn’t exist.

Oreo, what's with the comment about how Cariad posts?
People have their own style.

Some information on what may lie ahead.

This is the very first part of a 20 point plan put forward by Trump and supported by the major Middle Eastern states.

“Israel will cease its military assault in Gaza. Hamas, meanwhile, has agreed to free the remaining 20 Israeli hostages still alive in Gaza.

Until we have details, this agreement is similar to the phase 1 60-day ceasefire at the start of 2025. There is a pause in the killing, particularly from the Israeli side, but lasting arrangements remain to be confirmed.

The key difference is that Hamas released only some hostages and bodies in the previous ceasefire. This time they are freeing all hostages and the bodies which can be collected, in return for a still unannounced number of Palestinian detainees released from Israeli prisons.

That gives up Hamas’s main leverage against not only Israeli attacks but also the Netanyahu government’s occupation and veto on aid to Gaza.
So key elements of a lasting deal – the extent of the Israeli military’s withdrawal, the restoration of aid, the establishment of governance and security in the Strip – will rest on guarantees and who provides them.
The immediate “sticking points” are whether central provisions will be agreed in further discussions.

The Israelis will demand complete disarmament by Hamas and possibly the expulsion of some of its officials. Hamas is likely to respond with rejection of any forced removals and its retention of “defensive” weapons.

The make-up of the international “board” overseeing the strip is vague beyond Donald Trump declaring himself the chair and no provision for any Palestinian representation. Hamas will probably seek some Palestinian membership.

At this point, the International Stabilization Force for the Strip is a wish rather than a plan. Israeli agreement to a force replacing its military in Gaza is far from assured, especially as it is not clear who will contribute personnel. The Italian foreign minister, Antonio Tajani, has offered to send troops to contribute to the force.

The plan for a day-to-day government to administer the Strip is equally sketchy. While the presence of Palestinian technocrats is mentioned in Trump’s “plan”, we do not know who these will be. We know that Hamas is excluded. Israel is also likely to veto the Palestinian Authority in the short-term. And the release from imprisonment of potential Palestinian leaders – such as Marwan Barghouti, who has been held by Israel for more than 20 years – is not confirmed.

And before consideration of all of these, there is the question of the far-right in the Netanyahu cabinet. The finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, and national security minister, Itamar Ben-Gvir, have yet to comment on the latest news, but have previously opposed any deal short of the “total” defeat of Hamas and a long-term Israeli occupation. Neither have threatened to block the agreement – so far – but they have expressed opposition.”

Scott Lucas Professor of international Affairs. Dublin.

It’s because of the way he is that Trump does manage to get things done.A mixture of threats and honey can often work where pleasantness and diplomacy fails.
He isn’t liked by a lot of people but what he does seems to work.

“Dead cat diplomacy “ is the phrase being used to describe the method Trump is using to get the two protagonists to agree to a peace deal.

“it is clear that at least in his negotiating an end to the two-year war between Israel and Hamas, Trump’s laying of dead cats at the Israeli and Hamas doorsteps has been perceived by both parties as last-chance and credible threats, while capitalising on their increasingly untenable domestic standings.

Trump’s calling Netanyahu “always fucking negative” is but the latest dead cat laid on the Israeli leader’s doorstep. It was preceded a few days earlier by a humiliating and (public) strong-arming of Netanyahu to apologise to the Qatari prime minister, Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman al-Thani, for Israel’s failed assassination attempt of Hamas negotiators in Doha on September 9.
As one Israeli pollster noted: “For the first time Netanyahu cannot disregard the wishes of an American president, because of the way Trump operates. Trump is unpredictable and will not fall in line with the Israeli position.”

This was perfectly illustrated by the image of Netanyahu reading out his apology from a script while Trump was resting the telephone on his lap in the Oval Office, which was a blunt – and public – rebuke of the Israeli leader: you are solely responsible for this chaos, and you’d better apologise, or else.

…………. Trump has been equally expedient in laying dead cats at Hamas’s doorstep. First, by ironing out his peace plan with Israel while excluding Hamas from the process, and then by turning to his TruthSocial platform to single out Hamas as the remaining obstacle to ending the war, following his joint press conference with Netanyahu in the Oval Office.

……………. Whether this results in a lasting peace remains uncertain. But what is clear is that Trump’s willingness to weaponise public humiliation and blame has, at least for now, jolted two entrenched adversaries closer to compromise than years of cautious mediation ever did.” The Conversation.

Opinion is that Trump has now put his stamp on and taken responsibility for the peace deal, so will hopefully see it out, although nothing is certain with Trump.

The one country which does have its people questioning whether to stay or go is England….. just random strangers will express deep dissatisfaction with Labour and their policies. Although I was reassured today that the UK was better than Australia ….

CariadAgain

Whitewavemark2

Imagine the excitement of the hostages families! What a long weekend it is going to be but worth every second of the wait.

Utter sadness for those who will only receive their loved ones remains.

I would tend to think they will be devastated at the effect this has all had - both physically and emotionally - on their relatives. Obviously pleased to have them back again - but devastated at the effect this had all had on them.

In their position = I'd be after Netanyahu's blood - with the way he was warned/warned/warned again this was going to happen and not only did he not do anything about it - but "Israeli" troops also killed people at this.

I'd only be hanging around in the country for long enough for my relative to recover - at any rate physically - as much as was possible from this ordeal enough to be fit to move countries. Then we'd all leave Palestine and move to another country and never set foot in it again - rather than have my relative and myself constantly reminded of what had happened to them.

The combination of the betrayal by their own "government" and then the period in captivity would both be things I would be wanting us all to do our best to forget and recover from personally as far as possible. Some people never ever will recover mentally - even if they do so physically - and can end up living all the way through to a pretty advanced age and never ever get rid of PTSD from having been involved in a war.

Well now CariadAgain the returning hostages live in Israel and are Israelis with no quotation marks needed, they won’t be leaving Palestine or even staying in it as their country is Israel.
Whether you like it or not they are there to stay, and after six million Jews were murdered in the Holocaust it’s a homeland for them to be safe in.Until the massacre by Islamist extremists two years ago they were safe and after that they now will make sure it doesn’t happen again, in fact they already have done.
Hamas are finished.
It’s the hostages homeland and they, unlike you, will not want to leave.