Maccabi Tel Aviv football club banned

AGAA4

The government didn't have the common sense to keep out of local matters. The police knew there would be violence with this Maccabi team and put the people who would be affected first. The British public.
The government have been cowardly.

No, the government was doing the right thing, or trying to.
If there’s trouble at Villa Park or outside it by antisemitic crowds, even tho no fans there, what will be the denials and excuses then?

Babs03

And I hardly think we can blame the derby cancellation in Tel Aviv on antisemitism.

Well of course not as it was in Israel, but it would be antisemitism over here.The denials are tedious .

AGAA4

The government didn't have the common sense to keep out of local matters. The police knew there would be violence with this Maccabi team and put the people who would be affected first. The British public.
The government have been cowardly.

I think the government have seriously misread this situation. I have to say this because I’ve always said that, as a lifelong Labour voter I will always criticise them if I find them at fault and will praise other parties if I agree with them.

The government didn't have the common sense to keep out of local matters. The police knew there would be violence with this Maccabi team and put the people who would be affected first. The British public.
The government have been cowardly.

I’m not in any way suggesting Maccabi represent the majority in Israel or that their behaviour is in any way acceptable

Babs03

I think the pro Palestinian protestors would very quickly be joined not only with Maccabi fans but Yaxley Lennon and his thugs, all looking for a good kicking, promising to show up to support the Maccabi fans, if the game went ahead, so why Starmer and co were still eager to let the fans attend is beyond me.
There would have been multiple injuries - including of police officers - and even possible fatalities. Am not blaming any side, they would all kick off but am blaming the government for not putting the safety of the public and the police above their own political careers, which would have been tarnished with accusations of anti semitism if they had supported the ban.

Especially as Yaxley Lennon has recently been invited to give a talk in Israel. I mean, what was that all about and who is ready to condone it? It surely proves that there are extreme right wingers in Israel.

I think the pro Palestinian protestors would very quickly be joined not only with Maccabi fans but Yaxley Lennon and his thugs, all looking for a good kicking, promising to show up to support the Maccabi fans, if the game went ahead, so why Starmer and co were still eager to let the fans attend is beyond me.
There would have been multiple injuries - including of police officers - and even possible fatalities. Am not blaming any side, they would all kick off but am blaming the government for not putting the safety of the public and the police above their own political careers, which would have been tarnished with accusations of anti semitism if they had supported the ban.

The issue was raised in Parliament by Uan Duncan Smith who said that the team played against a Turkish one. Another politician gave the further information,that yes, the game was played, but it was moved to a different country Hungary, and it was played behind closed doors.
This is now way a new thing. That club has form.

And I hardly think we can blame the derby cancellation in Tel Aviv on antisemitism.

Whitewavemark2

iam64 re your uneasiness at accusations that dam Israelis.

Honestly that is not what I am saying. I am saying that thr hard right fans of Maccabi, who chant “death to all Arabs” and gleefully announce that bombed schools are not needed in Gaza because there are no children, amongst other foul things, - by their rhetoric show a visceral hatred that I find hard to swallow. Along side the rhetoric, comes the violence.

It goes without saying - but perhaps need to be said on here - thst there will be Israelis who are as appallled as I and I am sure sny fair minded person is, and frankly would want nothing to do with such ideology.

I would not welcome such people with such murderous rhetoric. Hopefully, Maccabi will sort these fans out and prevent them from travelling to other countries, just as other football clubs have done with some if their fans. . These thugs can hardly be considered ambassadors for their team!

Some of the Maccabi fans bad behaviour is obviously not palatable to Israelis either. The recent derby in Tel Aviv where Maccabi fans were supporting their team in the same inimitable manner was cancelled due to missiles being thrown onto the football ground and people injured before the game even started.
Am pretty sure that the majority of football fans in Israel do not condone this kind of behaviour, especially those poor Israelis living near the stadiums used.

If there’s any trouble in November at the Villa ground, either inside or out it will be entirely the pro Palestinian groups as the fans aren’t going to come to it.There they’ll be, hollering and shouting the odds.

growmore just read Maccabi”s history.

Interesting. Thank you

iam64 re your uneasiness at accusations that dam Israelis.

Honestly that is not what I am saying. I am saying that thr hard right fans of Maccabi, who chant “death to all Arabs” and gleefully announce that bombed schools are not needed in Gaza because there are no children, amongst other foul things, - by their rhetoric show a visceral hatred that I find hard to swallow. Along side the rhetoric, comes the violence.

It goes without saying - but perhaps need to be said on here - thst there will be Israelis who are as appallled as I and I am sure sny fair minded person is, and frankly would want nothing to do with such ideology.

I would not welcome such people with such murderous rhetoric. Hopefully, Maccabi will sort these fans out and prevent them from travelling to other countries, just as other football clubs have done with some if their fans. . These thugs can hardly be considered ambassadors for their team!

I agree with you that not all Israelis should be damned for the behaviour of the Maccabi ultras, just as not every English person was damned when Millwall was considered one of the most racist and violent teams in Europe.

Not all Israeli football fans should be damned for the behaviour of the Maccabi ultras, just as not every English football fan should be damned when Millwall was considered one of the most violent teams in the UK.

As I know you will be aware, despite consistent efforts by the FA and clubs, our male and female players get awful racist abuse and chants

Estonia, Bayer Munich

Even poor old Clayton

It’s all there if you want to find it

Oh Smiless. Italy, Norway…….

Iam64 There are indeed Muslim players in Israeli teams, both Israeli Arabs and Muslims from outside Israel. It's quite common for them to suffer anti-Muslim/Arab chanting/abuse, but little is done about it by the Israeli authorities.

I agree with you that not all Israelis should be damned for the behaviour of the Maccabi ultras, just as not every English person was damned when Millwall was considered one of the most racist and violent teams in Europe.

I think Whitewave is right about politics, although I'm not sure she's aware of the team's historic context. Maccabi Tel Aviv was founded in 1909, long before the state of Israel existed. It was founded as a Jewish club at a time when Palestine had an Arab majority, with a Star of David as its logo. After WW1, when the British controlled Palestine, Maccabi was still the only Jewish football team in the area of the Mandate. It was the strongest team in the area and became associated with Zionism and that link persists to this day.

There are 220 clubs in 16 divisions of football clubs in Israel. The big four include Naccabi Tel Aviv, Hapoel Tel Aviv, Maccabi Haifa and Beitar Jerusalem. The derby between Maccabi and Hapoel was called off recently after violence between fans

I often agree with Whitewave and may misinterpret your post at 09.06today. Your point is the main difference between British and Israeli fans is politics, their context is different than ours.
Muslim players feature in Israeli teams. “Visceral hatred of Arabs, far right racist rhetoric “ etc are shocking comments. I suspect many of them could be flung at other clubs and nationalities.

I’m uneasy about the accusations which dam Israelis

You jump to the conclusion that it will be pro Palestinians protesters Lathyrus when people who have no interest in Israel/Gaza may be angered by the anti-Semitic remarks made about their club.
I hope there won't be any trouble but there has been such a forore over this that there still may be

If you Google what's app and Amsterdam you should get some results.

Well I've googled it Lathyrus and there were no results for Pro Palestinian protesters causing trouble at football matches.

If the Maccabi fans aren’t there it will be much clearer where the trouble is coming from. No need for any protesters to gather now.

Do you think any of the trouble might have been “stirred up”by belligerent Pro Palestine protesters massing at the ground?

Of course it is . This is what has been said throughout this thread. A belligerent group of fans from Israel would stir people up and there will be trouble. Much more trouble now
than if this had been quietly handled by the government instead of shouting about it.
I think there could still be problems even though Maccabi aren't coming.