The man formerly known as Prince can fall no further....

Credible evidence is evidence which convinces members of the jury listening to it.
Impossible to say beforehand what would convince you.
The original photograph has disappeared, I believe, and having seen today a photograph doctored by AI of people whom I know extremely well, I would not trust it as evidence.
The email too is open to interpretation.
The Svengali who orchestrated all this and the girl he manipulated are both dead; Andrew has been destroyed by his own hubris.
Let it rest

Not a fan of Andrew, but everyone at the Palace let his arrogant behaviour continue. Andrew now totally humiliated and cast out, mission accomplished, so chase the others, very rich and influential people involved just like Andrew .and bought to justice. Do not like the way this is being dealt with by the media either what more do they want.

Just watching the news.
Evidently paying to escape jail is not unusual in the US, even if you’re a UK citizen and even if you’ve been found guilty, not just judged by the media.

RinseAndRepeat

I served in HM Forces for 32 years. I would be appalled if the system decided to relieve AMW of the rank (Commander) that he attained whilst serving his Country, and any medals that he earned during that time. We shouldn’t forget that some of his Active Service took place in the seas around the Falkland Islands where he flew as a co-pilot on Sea Kings. Removal of his honorary rank of Vice-Admiral is a matter for the King.

Absolutely, *RinseAndRepeat.

But I believe he only earned two medals and one was the Queen's Silver Jubilee medal.
That medal was strictly limited, for the whole of the Armed Forces only 15,000 were allocated and it was a luck dip who was awarded one.

* he being Andrew Lownie who is interviewed in the programme.

The Australian programme mentioned is 60 Minutes, it's available online. Interesting who he believes is leaking the emails, and why.

the post by paddyann54 reporting allegations in Australia that AMW arranged for boys to be dropped off at the royal yacht is the subject of a thread on mumsnet. I’ve not read it all but initial comments aren’t suggesting the allegations need binning.

I’ve waited for Epstein to be linked with providing young men, boys in the same way he did with girls.

The sexual behaviour of Louis Mountbatten has long been in the public domain. There’s no doubt he used boys aged eight and older for his satisfaction. He was another man with sexual appetites he saw it as his right to satisfy.

Agree Grandma70's

Bukkie,No lover,excuse the pun,of Andrew but he has not been convicted of anything! Been tried by media. And where were Virgina Guiffre's family when she was being traffiked all over the world? Andrew is defo guilty of extremely poor judgement and an entitled pompous ass, get him out of Royal Lodge by all means but he has not been found guilty of any crime. I feel sorry for Beatrice and Eugenie. Their parents are such an embarrassment! Both their daughter's have seemingly left the country,don't blame them.....How the mighty have fallen.

I served in HM Forces for 32 years. I would be appalled if the system decided to relieve AMW of the rank (Commander) that he attained whilst serving his Country, and any medals that he earned during that time. We shouldn’t forget that some of his Active Service took place in the seas around the Falkland Islands where he flew as a co-pilot on Sea Kings. Removal of his honorary rank of Vice-Admiral is a matter for the King.

Anniebach

Quote ViceVersa Mon 03-Nov-25 16:02:52
Anniebach
More evidence which is credible !
So what evidence would you accept as being credible? It's a genuine question, by the way. Given the very nature of the crimes being discussed here, I'm interested to know what evidence people would accept as 'credible'.
And I'd hate to be in the dock with some of the posters on here as jurors.

And the many who claim he is guilty because of photographs, guilty because of wealth, guilty because suddenly he has much power

I don't think I've ever made such claims, Anniebach - but I'm genuinely interested to know what some posters would accept as being 'credible' evidence. I've sat through enough court cases and trials in my working life to have seen at first hand how the system works.

Ha ha! Harry can’t even tell the truth about his own life, let alone someone else’s!

Msg from an Australian friend today about a news programme there,seems Andy had boys dropped off at the royal yacht regularly for years and security staff knew all about it!
Surprised ? Not me just surprised other “royal names “ haven’t been mentioned…..yet!
Didn’t Harry talk about family secrets they needed him to keep?Maybe Hes the only truthful one amongst them

Wouldn’t that be a turnup for the books ?

Quote ViceVersa Mon 03-Nov-25 16:02:52
Anniebach
More evidence which is credible !
So what evidence would you accept as being credible? It's a genuine question, by the way. Given the very nature of the crimes being discussed here, I'm interested to know what evidence people would accept as 'credible'.
And I'd hate to be in the dock with some of the posters on here as jurors.

And the many who claim he is guilty because of photographs, guilty because of wealth, guilty because suddenly he has much power

halfpint1

icanhandthemback

I read an interesting article yesterday in The Sunday Times regarding VG. It was about another Epstein victim who actually sued VG for defamation as she said that the book VG had written was at best exaggerated and at worst bare faced lies. That particular victim said she had never seen Andrew present when she was around. Once again, I don't know the truth of what happened but it appears that it is not the black and white case that the press are insinuating.
Somebody asked if I'd like my daughter having sex at 17 with such an old man and, of course, the answer is definitely a no but I would like to think that in the circumstances I would be looking out for my daughter far more than VG's parents did. The moment she came home saying somebody was recruiting her for massage, I'd have been suspicious and demanding to see that person before she went near the place. If she had continued down that path, she would have been under no doubt that I was there to support her when she realised where she was heading. VG just didn't have that support by the looks of things.

It does make me wonder how much this person got
paid to say so and by who.

Why is her story, which she also went before the courts with and had partial success with before VG died, any less likely. She has been met with all sorts of abuse because of her story. Is it possible that there just might be reasonable doubt about Andrew's relationship with VG. I don't know what to believe but if I were a member of the jury trying him (which is what I want to happen) then I wouldn't start with a stance that he is guilty. I would look at the evidence on both sides and then make up my mind. It seems that there are a lot of people on this forum who can't do that. Maybe the King should have insisted he face the prosecutors in the USA before he took the steps he has. Now nobody wins except the press who are able to keep stirring the pot and getting an excellent income. VG won't see justice, Andrew is tarred with accusations without being forced to give a defence and Royalty has effectively hidden behind this to try to take the heat off them instead of doing the right thing. It is shameful all round.

I think this is just the tip of the iceberg. Seems there may be a lot of financial irregularities from Kazakhstan to China and unfortunately the royal family may have known about it. The queen protected him and it seems impossible that MI5/MI6 were not aware of what was happening plus his close protection officers knew everything. I worked in Kazakhstan, Somaliland and other locations and trust me the close protection officers know everything.

Doodledog

Smileless2012

It's not just the press that's baying Charleygirl.

If those questioning Andrew's innocence are 'baying', what is the word you would use for those assuming, on the same evidence (or lack of it, if you prefer) that VG is lying and has obtained £12m by deception? Are they 'baying' for her disgrace? Or are they 'clamouring, 'yowling', 'exhorting'?

Nobody is baying for VGs blood, there is no doubt she was Trafficked nor that she claimed to be abused by her father, she and the other girls involved are the victims.

GN is turning into a lynch mob what kind if people are you?

Anniebach

More evidence which is credible !

So what evidence would you accept as being credible? It's a genuine question, by the way. Given the very nature of the crimes being discussed here, I'm interested to know what evidence people would accept as 'credible'.
And I'd hate to be in the dock with some of the posters on here as jurors.

Isn't an email saying something on the lines of 'We are in this together, chin up old chap, we'll play together soon' credible evidence? Or a photograph which has been analysed to see if it had been doctored, and no such evidence found?

And why is it that those suggesting that VG has lied think they are somehow rising above drawing conclusions and making assumptions, but see those who think she is telling the truth as baying curs who leap to judgement?

I read of the girl too, she is named and a victim, are some victims paid to lie !

icanhandthemback

I read an interesting article yesterday in The Sunday Times regarding VG. It was about another Epstein victim who actually sued VG for defamation as she said that the book VG had written was at best exaggerated and at worst bare faced lies. That particular victim said she had never seen Andrew present when she was around. Once again, I don't know the truth of what happened but it appears that it is not the black and white case that the press are insinuating.
Somebody asked if I'd like my daughter having sex at 17 with such an old man and, of course, the answer is definitely a no but I would like to think that in the circumstances I would be looking out for my daughter far more than VG's parents did. The moment she came home saying somebody was recruiting her for massage, I'd have been suspicious and demanding to see that person before she went near the place. If she had continued down that path, she would have been under no doubt that I was there to support her when she realised where she was heading. VG just didn't have that support by the looks of things.

It does make me wonder how much this person got
paid to say so and by who.

Yes, more of these Anniebach.
www.nbcnews.com/world/united-kingdom/andrew-faces-pressure-new-emails-epstein-published-rcna241264

More evidence which is credible !

Honestly
All down through history monarchs have murdered and fornicated and done all manner of reprehensible things. It seems to me the only difference now is that the power of public opinion curbs them and means they have to act in secret. I would say Andrew is the tip of the iceberg, he's been stupid and being thrown under the bus.

I don’t know what you expect though, when more evidence which is credible is published, should we ignore it?