The man formerly known as Prince can fall no further....

Women can’t be believed without some evidence, it may be a problem for them if they only come forward much later but a man can’t be convicted merely by another’s word on the matter.Where several women come forward it helps of course.
Any rape victim, female or male must go straight to the police where the evidence can be seen and the trail is hot.It’s really important.

And we still wonder why more women don't come forward to report crimes of rape or sexual assault...

Cossy

The simple fact is he entertained very dubious folk at Royal palaces, lied on camera about knowing people, sent some very dubious emails to his dubious friends, both he and his wife have lived rent free, skiving off family and friends for years and years and been involved in some awfully “iffy” business deals.

No one will actually come forward and bring any kind of personal prosecution, they would be “shut down” by The Firm, or paid.

No one pays £12m to shut some up they “don’t recollect meeting”.

Yes, they would, it’s small potatoes to them and worth it to stop any damage to the RF and Andrew.
The other things you mention aren’t actual crimes.

Not after you’ve just been raped at an interview by two people, sorry, I don’t buy it.

Oreo

Apparently in her book she says that her Father abused her, and he drove her to the interview with Epstein and Maxwell, there both Epstein and Maxwell raped her.
Yet she still went to work for them? I think she was a victim but was also somewhat disturbed and delusional as time went on in her life.

With an abusive father, he possibly put pressure on her to get a job, she was still pretty young then.

The photograph of Giuffre and Andrew, her eyes are joyful, she kept the photograph, perhaps distress hadn’t set in then

The simple fact is he entertained very dubious folk at Royal palaces, lied on camera about knowing people, sent some very dubious emails to his dubious friends, both he and his wife have lived rent free, skiving off family and friends for years and years and been involved in some awfully “iffy” business deals.

No one will actually come forward and bring any kind of personal prosecution, they would be “shut down” by The Firm, or paid.

No one pays £12m to shut some up they “don’t recollect meeting”.

Apparently in her book she says that her Father abused her, and he drove her to the interview with Epstein and Maxwell, there both Epstein and Maxwell raped her.
Yet she still went to work for them? I think she was a victim but was also somewhat disturbed and delusional as time went on in her life.

Whitewavemark2

It was upsetting watching Giuffre being interviewed and seeing her distress, on the BBC news today. At the time a bit of me wondered if she was acting, but now I understand that her distress was absolutely real.

How can these buggers live with themselves.

I have some doubts.

InRainbows

We should believe women when they say a crime has been committed against them

What other evidence would we need?

Sorry, but don’t agree with that at all.Women can and do lie about all sorts of things, just as men do.
Evidence is needed for any crime.

Transparent investigations not possible for the royals, Camilla was attacked because Diana accused Charles, Camilla is still being verbally attacked. The press are at Windsor and Sandringham waiting at the gates. Posts speak of his arrogance, not a crime, even dispatching him to another country, there is gloating too, justice ?

So what would GNs like to happen re Andrew?
The media are doing the “digging up the dirt” bit, so there’s something else to look forward to, but what outcome would satisfy GNs ?
Imprisonment?
Suicide?
Attacks on SF? (I’m sure there’s a thread running about it being unreasonable to expect a wife to check everything her husband does.)
Exposés on his children?

It was upsetting watching Giuffre being interviewed and seeing her distress, on the BBC news today. At the time a bit of me wondered if she was acting, but now I understand that her distress was absolutely real.

How can these buggers live with themselves.

It wouldn't surprise me, if investigated robustly and transparently, if many of his dodgy dealings come back to bite him on the bum.

Sunninghill languished on the market, overpriced and with the "Southyork" or "Tesco" label. Then he gets in cahoots with the President of Kazakhstan and lo and behold - along comes the President's sil and pays 3 million over the asking price. Rates for mates? Aka serious money laundering.

The only thing we know about Andrew is that he was pally with a sex offender

We know he blatantly lied on TV about his relationship with a paedophile. We know royal security and palace officials are embroiled in keeping his relationship with Giuffre a secret and using these officials to 'dig up dirt' to try to discredit her. We know he has been involved with significantly dodgy characters across the globe to get money, we know he has abused public money in his role as 'Special Representative for Trade and Investment' and no known benefits to the economy can from his jet setting. There are plenty on record reporting on his embarrassing behaviour on those trips. More will come out.

What the Royal Family does with their own, private finances surely should be private just as ours is?

None of us can keep our Wills secret. Then royals can - so money gets passed between them without us knowing. There can be no defensible reason for that exclusive privilege.

I feel sorry for Beatrice and Eugenie in all this. They can't help having the parents they do, and it must be hard for them.

Just remembering “The Queen and I” the book by Sue Townsend satirising the Queen moving into a council house and living on benefits when a republican government abolished the monarchy. So maybe Andrew should be sent a copy?

We must always remember that reports made about abuse are almost always the truth. False reports are extremely rare.

Usually the only people who would lie about being abused are actually the perpetrators of abuse. Then it is generally quite easy to spot because they will have a victim saying the opposite and when spoken to it is easy to see the truth.

We should believe women when they say a crime has been committed against them

What other evidence would we need?

a trait that was never reined in and not doing so hasn't done him any favours in the long run has it TerriBull.

TerriBull

It must have been very difficult for the King, I think he has shown strength in doing the right thing. He and Andrew illustrate just how different siblings can be, Charles was a shy and diffident child, Andrew bumptious and full of himself from his earliest years and seemingly a trait that was never reined in. The speculation had been when he finally exited the Royal Lodge he would be moving into Frogmore Cottage on the Windsor estate, but they obviously want him further away in Norfolk, even if they are all gathered there for Christmas. Wonder where Sarah is going to live now? The body language of the royals towards Andrew when they were gathered for the late Duchess of Kent's funeral certainly spoke volumes.

There is jolly nice modernised ex-council house for sale in the East Midlands right now, with large secluded garden and two bathrooms.

StoneofDestiny

He needs to be brought before the court as they requested in the USA. Utterly ridiculous it’s taken so long to deal with this national embarrassment. £12 million was paid to keep him out of court - no way that suggests an innocent man. All those who have helped him get away with it should also be brought before the court - royal security, police protection officers and members of the royal family. It is odd that none of the police protection people were called to support or refute his statements about his whereabouts at the pizza place he claimed never who he danced with at the parties he said he ‘couldn’t remember’. It’s also long overdue that royal finances be made public. He could not have got away with his extravagant travels, suspicious ‘bribe’ payments, misuse of royal security for himself and his daughters on their multiple holidays and we’d know where the £12 million actually came from to buy off the US courts.
The royal wills should be public too. There’s no reason that is justifiable they are secret - then we will know what is really going on with our taxes.

The accounts for the Sovereign Grant are readily available if you wish to scrutinise them, StoneofDestiny.

What the Royal Family does with their own, private finances surely should be private just as ours is?

Smileless2012

The only thing we know about Andrew is that he was pally with a sex offender.

We don't know that Andrew ever had sex with a trafficked young woman vegansrock but when it come to a trial by media that doesn't seem to matter does it.

Exactly. That’s why it all seems a bit over the top to me. There must surely be more to it.

Ostracised by the rf, the press and the whole world he is going to have to be very thick skinned to survive this. Redemption is always a possibility but only if he acknowledges his wrongs.