The man formerly known as Prince can fall no further....

Yes, I've heard about it in relation to Louis Mountbatten eazybee but this is the first time I've seen it alleged about Andrew.

Young boys as well as young girls? My word.

I have heard the allegations about young boys brought to the yacht, but when I saw them they were levelled at Louis Mountbatten.

But as things stand Iam these are allegations. Was he the only 'friend' of Epstein at that hotel at that time? Whose to say if there were many sex workers any of them were there for Andrew? Is it now being alleged that as well as being 'into' underage girls, he was also 'into' underage boys!!!

I agree that he doesn't appear to be socially or emotionally intelligent but that doesn't make someone a rapist and/or a paedophile.

As David asked earlier, how many GN's would want their son to be convicted on allegations alone?

We often see things differently eazybee but not so much here. AMW doesn’t seem socially or emotionally intelligent. His EM interview raised questions about his intelligence. He’d be easy for Maxwell to charm and introduce him to Epstein. AMW is believed to have high sex drive. I’m sure Epstein filmed and blackmailed. His wealth remains a mystery

This week we saw allegation AMW had many sex workers to his hotel in Thailand. My understanding is many Thai sex workers are very yiung.
There is also the allegations from Australia that he had ‘boys’ brought to the yacht

I suspect the King is aware of information yet to be public

We hear a lot about women who are duped out of large amounts of money by men they meet, generally unknown to their family and friends. Their sorry tales are usually received with immense sympathy, because they have received the full onslaught of a charm offensive from professionals who make it their business.
I have little sympathy for Andrew, mainly because of his pig-headed attitude, but I think this is what he received from Maxwell, who then introduced him to Epstein, who satisfied his most pressing need: money. The association with girls, and the services they offered were there to use as blackmail, should he, and other clients, default on loans.

I may be wrong, but as far as I am aware there is no evidence of Andrew associating with under-age girls elsewhere.
I think the investigation in America should focus on the men who were 'clients 'of Epstein, and whether they were blackmailed, and what they gave in return for secrecy.

Smileless2012. @9.18am

Well put. 👏👏👏

Suzieque66

No smoke without fire !

So now we are going to prosecute men for being present in a room with young women, it happens in clubs and parties in every city and town, some of the women are sex workers some just want casual sex, some neither. With smart phones photos are taken all the time.

Would you want your son convicted for just being present without any evidence that he did anything wrong. If suspicion was the conviction standard we would need to double the prisons at least

Agree Smileless

Suzieque66

No smoke without fire !

All that glitters is not gold

The CPS does not allow a case to go to court unless there is in their opinion, sufficient evidence to secure a conviction Doodledog. Kindling that produces smoke isn't enough and I'm speculating wasn't enough, hence a civil case being instigated and the acceptance of an out of court settlement.

VG's testimony; see Oreo's post yesterday @ 20.45 about the real reason for her being in hospital. Why on earth did she keep a photograph of her posing with a man who had abused her 3 times, by having sex with her 3 times?

The photograph if genuine which I think has 'gone missing', is proof that he had a picture taken with her. It doesn't prove he had sex with her and if he did, it doesn't prove that he knew she was a victim of trafficking.

If the picture is genuine, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that he had no memory of her and the picture being taken, because it's just one of tens of thousands.

His continued friendship with Epstein as supported by his emails, proves his appalling lack of judgement and an appalling attitude to the sickening crime of paedophilia and abuse for which Epstein had been convicted. It is not IMO evidence that he was actively involved or personally witnessed under age girls at Epstein's 'party's'.

There is no way I would condone or defend him if there is proof that he did what he has been accused of but I don't see any proof.

The fire in this case is the emails, the testimony of VG and the photograph. The flames were fanned by the lies told on Newsnight and the fact that, knowing that Epstein was a convicted sex offender, Andrew visited him, told him they were in it together and would play again soon, and that his (Andrew's) wife called him a special friend (or similar) and admitted that anything negative said about him was for the benefit of the press and she didn't mean it.

That's quite a lot of kindling, isn't it?

Also, when people talk about 'trial by media' are they forgetting that Andrew has an opportunity to be tried by law, but has so far refused to co-operate? Disallowing any discussion of things that fall short of being 'proof' means that evidence is impossible to obtain. The accusations are of crimes committed in private where there are no witnesses, which again, hinders the chances of a case being made, and th fact that Andrew (however understandably) is refusing to answer questions and co-operate with the authorities means that the fact that there is smoke at all is suggestive of a cover-up, surely?

No smoke without fire is a poor excuse for a trial by media.

No smoke without fire !

Anniebach

The press will be in Sandringham day and night, there has been film of people who live in Sandringham being asked if they want him living there

Well that would be a turn up for the books for the people of Sandringham.
There have been occasions even on GN where posters aren’t happy about their neighbours. The only option is to move.

Maybe they should be offered the choice between Andrew and a flotilla young men from the boats, in need of somewhere to stay whilst their applications are processed.

Oreo

Andrew would be a fool to say anything to anyone.

After the Newsnight car crash he will say nothing, he is pretty well secluded at Sandringham, so the press will be kept well away.
If there are any revelations about Epsteins parties there will be many other high profile men involved. If the US court cannot force Maxwell to give evidence, they are not likely to get any information from Andrew

It would be remarkable if AMW wasn’t feeling stressed right now.

I don’t know that Andrew will be spending much time in Norfolk. It’s a base for him but he has had a better offer from the UAE it is reported.

The press will be in Sandringham day and night, there has been film of people who live in Sandringham being asked if they want him living there

Oreo

Andrew would be a fool to say anything to anyone.

I assume he'll be getting legal advice (if assumptions are allowed now?) and if so, I agree. No lawyer is likely to agree to his going to the US where he could be arrested. Having said that, he did the Newsnight interview, so who knows.

My best guess is that Andrew will be supported by his friends including his old school friends. Maybe even his sister and Prince Edward might be looking out for him. Away from public scrutiny, it’s anybody’s guess.

Andrew would be a fool to say anything to anyone.

Mollygo

Who knows how Andrew feels?
Certainly if he’s aware of the pile on on social media, he might feel depressed.
You only have to read about people including VG feeling isolated, or feeling it’s all too much. When the suicide of a young man (ex-pupil) was announced in the press, his sister reported that he had said there was “no way out of this mess and nothing to live for”.
By some accounts, VG was terminally ill
"They’ve given me four days to live, transferring me to a specialist hospital in urology.”
Then she accused her husband of abuse.

These things don’t excuse Andrew if he’s guilty of what he stands accused, but his actions did not directly contribute to her death.

She said a lot of untrue things, especially about being in hospital, she was there it transpired as she had been in a very minor car accident.

I mean the speculation on this thread about how he might be feeling as a result of the press coverage - I didn't hear the Jeremy Vine chat show. Whether it was a question (which couldn't be answered unless Andrew was on the panel) or a suggestion from a caller that the coverage 'might' impact on his MH isn't the point, really. It is speculation - no more or less than the discussion about why the King stripped him of his titles or what might still be to come out when the US government comes out of shutdown.

It's not unreasonable to speculate. We are all human beings, and it's what people do to make sense of the world, isn't it?

Andrew’s mental health was not a question, someone spoke of ‘the press coverage and concern the press coverage could affect his mental health,

The fact remains, however, that VG did take her life, whatever the reason. What I am asking is whether the speculation about Andrew's mental health is based on a question asked by a caller phoning in to a TV chat show, or if there is any proof that he is suicidal.