The man formerly known as Prince can fall no further....

The sort that haven’t got an ounce of decency and sense of right and wrong in their whole twisted brains. I don’t know how they sleep at night.

Doodledog

I repeat (although I have said it often on these threads) that I am not accusing Andrew of anything. What I am saying is that there is increasing evidence that on Epstein's island, and on his 'Lolita' plane, there were very young girls - children.

If I went to a party and saw children being put in rooms with men I would have called the police. If I got to a private island and saw children there, I would ask questions of my hosts.

If I got on a plane to an 'adult' party and was in the company of children I would be more than uneasy.

Are my feelings out of step with anyone on this thread who is prepared to defend Andrew, or anyone else at these parties/at the mansion when the girls were there/on the plane when children were being transported?

Can anyone put up a defence?

Do we actually know if Andrew was at parties where there were children? Did he travel on the 'Lolita' plane with children?
If I went to an adults party and there were children there without their parents, I'd be highly suspicious and raising my concerns too and certainly if they were being put into rooms with men. However, nothing I have read has suggested that Andrew saw these things. Without the files being released we can only speculate and that is indefensible.

The whole thing stinks to high heaven. What sort of creeps are these men?

By the way, Johnson is still refusing to swear in the newest Democrat from Arizona, she won her election in September. Her vote would be the one needed to release the Epstein files.

Johnson also cancelled another week worth of work in the House, which included another vote on something to do with the Epstein files.

I agree with you Doodle. If I had seen young children at parties, I would have immediately called authorities.

In the US, VG was considered a trafficked person, thus could not have consented to sex. If AMW had sex with her in NYC, he committed a crime and should be tried in accordance of US law.

Every day we inch closer to the files being released. It may be Andrew and Sarah feeling the heat now, but they won't be the last.

It will all come out eventually.

Those girls will be very frightened of telling what really happened and who was involved. Look what happened to Epstein and Guiffre. Their lives would be in danger from the rich and powerful, they have long arms .

I repeat (although I have said it often on these threads) that I am not accusing Andrew of anything. What I am saying is that there is increasing evidence that on Epstein's island, and on his 'Lolita' plane, there were very young girls - children.

If I went to a party and saw children being put in rooms with men I would have called the police. If I got to a private island and saw children there, I would ask questions of my hosts.

If I got on a plane to an 'adult' party and was in the company of children I would be more than uneasy.

Are my feelings out of step with anyone on this thread who is prepared to defend Andrew, or anyone else at these parties/at the mansion when the girls were there/on the plane when children were being transported?

Can anyone put up a defence?

ronib

But in the UK, the legal age for a prostitute is 18.
And Andrew did not pay VG for her services. Epstein did!!

In the UK and there is no minimum age for describing a woman as a prostitute. The difference is that there is seperate legislation for those under and over 18. Activities like that of AMW is not covered by any form of legislation and is entirely legal

I suggest your read this link file:///C:/Users/Admin/Downloads/Prostitution_Fact_Sheet.pdf

The facts include Epstein’s conviction was for sexual offences against a 14 year old girl. Law enforcement were aware of numerous and frequent girls of about 14 visiting his home. It seems very similar to our victims of organised child exploitation. Girls unwilling for a variety of understandable reasons, unwilling to give evidence

A key fact is AMWs continued friendship with this convicted sex offender

But in the UK, the legal age for a prostitute is 18.
And Andrew did not pay VG for her services. Epstein did!!

AMW's first contact with VG was in England where the age of consent is 16. In which case, as she was 17, there was no crime of any kind involved. Whether he breached any rules in further contact I have no idea. It will depend on her age by then and the jurisdiction.

I am not defending him. Just trying to make sure we keep to the facts.

Iam64

CBS news is showing interviews with women who became involved with Epstein Maxwell at age 11 - 14

My eldest niece is nearly 13, so exactly that age. She is a child - not even a teenager. There is no excuse for taking advantage of girls of that age, or for not reporting others you know to be doing so. There is no excuse at any age, but where are the basic protective instincts of anyone who can defend the abuse of children in any way? Regardless of the actions of their parents, their gullibility, regardless of anything at all. It makes me feel sick to think about it.

CBS news is showing interviews with women who became involved with Epstein Maxwell at age 11 - 14

Maremia

ronib, I think you are correct in that Andrew MW may not believe that he did anything wrong.
He probably assumed she was there willing because he was a handsome Prince.
I do believe he could have felt so entitled.
Probably never once gave her a proper 'thought'.

That’s the point 🙈. Never mind “may not believe he did anything wrong” his actions and comments confirm self belief and entitlement to levels most just get nowhere near

Maremia

Casdon, looks as if nothing will be resolved for the other victims until the 'files' are released.
Thanks for the link.

Not unless another victim breaks rank and tells their story Maremia, which takes a huge amount of courage to do.

Anniebach

It’s reported he will keep his Falkland medal

This from Simon Weston.

Mr Weston said stripping Andrew of the military honour would have been an affront to other veterans. “It’s trivialising what the medal stands for. It’s not a gift. It’s something you earn,” he added..
“I do feel like there are people now who are trying to ramp up every type of humiliation against Andrew to emasculate him.
“Who he has been involved with is abhorrent… but it’s not right to take his medal away.”
Mr Weston noted that others convicted of crimes including murder had been allowed to keep their medals.

That’s probably because people aren’t bothered about trivialising something they haven’t got.

Casdon, looks as if nothing will be resolved for the other victims until the 'files' are released.
Thanks for the link.

If Marjorie Taylor Green delivers the 'goods', then go her!

It’s reported he will keep his Falkland medal

This from Simon Weston.

Mr Weston said stripping Andrew of the military honour would have been an affront to other veterans. “It’s trivialising what the medal stands for. It’s not a gift. It’s something you earn,” he added..
“I do feel like there are people now who are trying to ramp up every type of humiliation against Andrew to emasculate him.
“Who he has been involved with is abhorrent… but it’s not right to take his medal away.”
Mr Weston noted that others convicted of crimes including murder had been allowed to keep their medals.

ronib, I think you are correct in that Andrew MW may not believe that he did anything wrong.
He probably assumed she was there willing because he was a handsome Prince.
I do believe he could have felt so entitled.
Probably never once gave her a proper 'thought'.

An interesting read.
theconversation.com/former-prince-andrews-biographer-predicts-lots-more-to-come-after-years-charting-his-vices-268808

keepingquiet

Oreo

I am surprised that Andrew has had his titles, his home of many years and even his Naval medals taken away when there has been no criminal or any other kind of evidence against him other than he was a frequent guest at Epstein’s lavish parties.
As were many other people. He was a playboy with no judgement but if so has paid dearly for it.

He lied? And lied again...? He ought to be convicted and tried like anyone else.

Lying is not a criminal offence. However, I think you mean he should be tried and convicted. Most people are only found guilty if they have been tried first unless your name is Andrew.

Rolf Harris? Paul Gadd? Jeffrey Epstein? Ghislaine Maxwell?

Like anyone else ? Who ?

Oreo

I am surprised that Andrew has had his titles, his home of many years and even his Naval medals taken away when there has been no criminal or any other kind of evidence against him other than he was a frequent guest at Epstein’s lavish parties.
As were many other people. He was a playboy with no judgement but if so has paid dearly for it.

He lied? And lied again...? He ought to be convicted and tried like anyone else.