Multiple stabbings on train Huntingdon

It’s all speculation, it’s not been said he has mental health problems, or if the man who has been released from custody had any relationship with him at all. I was just pointing out that detention under the MHA would normally preclude him being on a train, in response to what another poster said.

growstuff

StripeyGran

Please let's not hear " Lone Wolf" again.

It makes me sick.

Why don't you like the expression? If it turns out there were no accomplices, what else could he be called?

A suspect?

growstuff

Primrose53

Wouldn’t surprise me if the man still detained was a mental health patient and the man who was released was his carer or support worker. Mystery how he got the knife though.

I bought a cook's knife in Lidl last week. I haven't tried (and I'm not going to) but I reckon it could do quite a bit of damage. The cashier had to press a button to authorise that I looked over 25, but it wasn't difficult to buy.

I meant IF he was being escorted somewhere by a member of staff.

StripeyGran

growstuff

StripeyGran

Please let's not hear " Lone Wolf" again.

It makes me sick.

Why don't you like the expression? If it turns out there were no accomplices, what else could he be called?

A suspect?

But the term differentiates from a planned and co-ordinated group action. A genuine "lone wolf" is not part of a network, although he/she could have been influenced by others, especially online.

It's somebody who is acting without instructions or collaboration from others.

Sorry, I don't really see what's wrong with it as an expression.

Primrose53

growstuff

Primrose53

Wouldn’t surprise me if the man still detained was a mental health patient and the man who was released was his carer or support worker. Mystery how he got the knife though.

I bought a cook's knife in Lidl last week. I haven't tried (and I'm not going to) but I reckon it could do quite a bit of damage. The cashier had to press a button to authorise that I looked over 25, but it wasn't difficult to buy.

I meant IF he was being escorted somewhere by a member of staff.

Sorry! I don't know where you got the idea that he was being escorted. If he was sectioned, I honestly don't think public transport would be used.

Casdon

It’s all speculation, it’s not been said he has mental health problems, or if the man who has been released from custody had any relationship with him at all. I was just pointing out that detention under the MHA would normally preclude him being on a train, in response to what another poster said.

From what little knowledge I have, I agree with you. I just can't imagine that anybody with serious mental health issues (especially if violent tendencies had ever been suspected) would be travelling on a train.

This seems like some wild internet speculation which has been repeated enough, it's now believed.

Primrose, I’m relieved yiur son got good health care, I’m not wanting to take away from the serious subject being discussed here but I want to acknowledge what a tough timebyiure managing 💖

The speculating should stop, the true facts will come out soon.

The police released the ethnicity and nationality of the suspect, who is black, following disinformation online which claimed that the incident was a terror attack by Asian Islamists.

It led a former senior figure in Scotland Yard to tell the Guardian that forces were being compelled to disclose the ethnicity of suspects in response to far-right speculation.

growstuff

Casdon

It’s all speculation, it’s not been said he has mental health problems, or if the man who has been released from custody had any relationship with him at all. I was just pointing out that detention under the MHA would normally preclude him being on a train, in response to what another poster said.

From what little knowledge I have, I agree with you. I just can't imagine that anybody with serious mental health issues (especially if violent tendencies had ever been suspected) would be travelling on a train.

This seems like some wild internet speculation which has been repeated enough, it's now believed.

On that subject only, I do know, and if the person was known to be dangerous, he would have most definitely have been in an ambulance.

growstuff

Primrose53

growstuff

Primrose53

Wouldn’t surprise me if the man still detained was a mental health patient and the man who was released was his carer or support worker. Mystery how he got the knife though.

I bought a cook's knife in Lidl last week. I haven't tried (and I'm not going to) but I reckon it could do quite a bit of damage. The cashier had to press a button to authorise that I looked over 25, but it wasn't difficult to buy.

I meant IF he was being escorted somewhere by a member of staff.

Sorry! I don't know where you got the idea that he was being escorted. If he was sectioned, I honestly don't think public transport would be used.

I didn’t mention anybody being sectioned. There was a mental health hospital not far from here and patients were taken out with a member of staff to shop in a local town. That’s the type of thing I was thinking about.

There have been many incidents when
Schizophrenia sufferers have carried out violent acts on members of the public. There’s nothing to stop someone travelling on public transport if they are a schizophrenic. If a sufferer stops taking their medication their symptoms increase. A paranoid schizophrenic
in the grip of a psychotic episode is capable of acts such as this and I find it strange some of you believe they are monitored. Mental health services are practically non existent in the UK these days and incidents such as this, whilst uncommon, have occurred in the past. People being pushed onto train tracks, a young girl murdered in a park in front of her parents and the Nottingham case, where 3 were killed all carried out by schizophrenics.

Primrose53

growstuff

Primrose53

growstuff

Primrose53

Wouldn’t surprise me if the man still detained was a mental health patient and the man who was released was his carer or support worker. Mystery how he got the knife though.

I bought a cook's knife in Lidl last week. I haven't tried (and I'm not going to) but I reckon it could do quite a bit of damage. The cashier had to press a button to authorise that I looked over 25, but it wasn't difficult to buy.

I meant IF he was being escorted somewhere by a member of staff.

Sorry! I don't know where you got the idea that he was being escorted. If he was sectioned, I honestly don't think public transport would be used.

I didn’t mention anybody being sectioned. There was a mental health hospital not far from here and patients were taken out with a member of staff to shop in a local town. That’s the type of thing I was thinking about.

Both my sisters spent part of their careers working as mental health nurses in hospitals. They did take out some patients, but if somebody was known to be schizophrenic, there is no way the patient would be travelling on public transport.

In any case, none of us on here have any idea whether the suspect has ever been diagnosed or what engagement there has been with mental health services. It's pure speculation!

Valdo Calocane (the Nottingham murderer) had a history of mental health issues and was known to the police, but was not being detained.

surfsup

There have been many incidents when
Schizophrenia sufferers have carried out violent acts on members of the public. There’s nothing to stop someone travelling on public transport if they are a schizophrenic. If a sufferer stops taking their medication their symptoms increase. A paranoid schizophrenic
in the grip of a psychotic episode is capable of acts such as this and I find it strange some of you believe they are monitored. Mental health services are practically non existent in the UK these days and incidents such as this, whilst uncommon, have occurred in the past. People being pushed onto train tracks, a young girl murdered in a park in front of her parents and the Nottingham case, where 3 were killed all carried out by schizophrenics.

I was on a train travelling back from Uttoxeter a few years ago and got chatting to someone who told me he was schizophrenic. I remember asking him if he was taking his medication and was so relieved that, as we both got off the train together, my son was walking along the platform, even though he didn’t live at home at the time and I had no idea that he would be there.

A friend of mine, who was a very successful and well respected person, told me about the hell his private life was. His son was a schizophrenic who had several times tried to burn their house down. If you saw him out on the street you would have thought he was perfectly normal - quite quiet in fact.

My husband was once out with a group of men and they were attacked by a man who suddenly went berserk with a samurai sword. Fortunately there were a few ex service men in the group who overpowered him with no damage done Sometimes these things just happen.

surfsup

There have been many incidents when
Schizophrenia sufferers have carried out violent acts on members of the public. There’s nothing to stop someone travelling on public transport if they are a schizophrenic. If a sufferer stops taking their medication their symptoms increase. A paranoid schizophrenic
in the grip of a psychotic episode is capable of acts such as this and I find it strange some of you believe they are monitored. Mental health services are practically non existent in the UK these days and incidents such as this, whilst uncommon, have occurred in the past. People being pushed onto train tracks, a young girl murdered in a park in front of her parents and the Nottingham case, where 3 were killed all carried out by schizophrenics.

Of course there isn't anything to stop somebody with schizophrenia from travelling on public transport. However, this discussion has been about somebody who is detained. In that case, I'm sure the case would be judged on merit, but if the person showed violent tendencies (despite medication), it's highly unlikely he/she would be using public transport.

This is all speculation, but if the person on the train is schizophrenic it's more likely he wasn't diagnosed, wasn't engaging with treatment or wasn't considered serious/dangerous enough to be detained.

Deedaa

A friend of mine, who was a very successful and well respected person, told me about the hell his private life was. His son was a schizophrenic who had several times tried to burn their house down. If you saw him out on the street you would have thought he was perfectly normal - quite quiet in fact.

My husband was once out with a group of men and they were attacked by a man who suddenly went berserk with a samurai sword. Fortunately there were a few ex service men in the group who overpowered him with no damage done Sometimes these things just happen.

Schizophrenics aren't always violent. Usually, they suffer more than anybody else. They can't all be locked up on the off chance they do something wrong, but they are unpredictable, especially if they're not taking medication.

Primrose53

growstuff

Primrose53

growstuff

Primrose53

Wouldn’t surprise me if the man still detained was a mental health patient and the man who was released was his carer or support worker. Mystery how he got the knife though.

I bought a cook's knife in Lidl last week. I haven't tried (and I'm not going to) but I reckon it could do quite a bit of damage. The cashier had to press a button to authorise that I looked over 25, but it wasn't difficult to buy.

I meant IF he was being escorted somewhere by a member of staff.

Sorry! I don't know where you got the idea that he was being escorted. If he was sectioned, I honestly don't think public transport would be used.

I didn’t mention anybody being sectioned. There was a mental health hospital not far from here and patients were taken out with a member of staff to shop in a local town. That’s the type of thing I was thinking about.

Oh yes, you are right there, Primrose. someone can be very ill indeed but once under the control of strong medication will go out and about and it's valuable.

growstuff

Deedaa

A friend of mine, who was a very successful and well respected person, told me about the hell his private life was. His son was a schizophrenic who had several times tried to burn their house down. If you saw him out on the street you would have thought he was perfectly normal - quite quiet in fact.

My husband was once out with a group of men and they were attacked by a man who suddenly went berserk with a samurai sword. Fortunately there were a few ex service men in the group who overpowered him with no damage done Sometimes these things just happen.

Schizophrenics aren't always violent. Usually, they suffer more than anybody else. They can't all be locked up on the off chance they do something wrong, but they are unpredictable, especially if they're not taking medication.

"Schizophrenics aren't always violent".

Most indeed, are not.

The greater danger is that they will take their own lives.

The very high level of meds have such substantial side effects as to make the quality of some lives very poor. Despite the meds, they may still hear voices telling themselves to self harm not the opposite.

its a minority that we hear about, sadly. anyone with a Schizophrenic in their family will attest to the pain a very poorly mind suffers.

However, if it is a case of violence, it is often the case, it is of recent onset - and not diagnosed at all. Or someone who has found the side effect intolerable and has come off the meds without the MH workers knowing.

Unless we have more MH workers, it's impossible to carry out the regular checks that ideally there would be. This is not an excuse" simply the truth about cut backs in MH care.

Wyllow3 👍🏻
Many people diagnosed with schizophrenia comply with meds and pose no threat to others. Before austerity, mh teams in the nhs and social work cooperated in supporting people. As others have pointed out, these services are stripped to the bone.
This incident must have been terrifying for all. The train driver, train staff and police responders were brilliant

It appears that the perpetrator had a long history of mental ill health as reported by BBC this morning. I'm reporting this not as an excuse for him, but as an attempt to veer people away from the terrorist and immigrant slant.

Sorry but it is just as reasonable for people to have speculated about the terrorist angle. It is no different to speculating about a mental health issue.

I don’t think anyone has said otherwise, have they?

Now that we know it was not terrorism, however, it makes sense to concentrate on other explanations, which, it seems to me, is all Grandmabatty is saying. She didn’t suggest that anyone was being unreasonable.

Yes known to have mental health issues and known to authorities. Gives a lie to those insisting someone with violent tendancies wouldn’t be allowed to travel on a train. I actually wonder which world some inhabit.

It’s always better not to speculate, and to wait for concrete information, thank you for providing that Grandmabatty. I agree with *growstuff’s comments about the underfunding of mental health services being a major problem, it really is, both for patients and for society at large. Whether this incident was due to lack of compliance with medication and/or lack of supervision, and could have been prevented we will have to wait and see.