Was the Britain we have today worth all the sacrifices made in WW2?

16 to 24 year olds don't really have much of a past. So what 'past' are they nostalgic for?

MaizieD

16 to 24 year olds don't really have much of a past. So what 'past' are they nostalgic for?

I’m guessing from their parents and grandparents telling them about their younger years and the freedom they had.

I remain grateful to all service men and women that fought for our freedoms and contimue to fight, including this veteran who quite rightly expressed his frustration of what we made of the country once freedom was assured.

It is a timely lesson to still value what we have and to continue to fight against those who seek to disrupt our peace by creating false narratives that stir hatred and division.

They will not win now, and never will.

GrannyGravy13

growstuff I suggest you ask the poster who brought Islam up.

Yes, somebody did indeed bring Islam up and then rape, abuse and the hideous regime in Afghanistan was thrown into the mix.

What about when we go for check ups or treatment and the medics are Muslim or those famous Muslim friends we hear about? Or the person in the gym or the young girl I was chatting to the other other day?

Why is there only ever one kind of Muslim, it's ridiculous.

StripeyGran one of my best girlfriends is a Moslem, my nearest neighbours are strict Moslem.

Cannot understand your point

MaizieD

16 to 24 year olds don't really have much of a past. So what 'past' are they nostalgic for?

Ours! The Swinging Sixties?

Maremia

Not relevant I know, but since you are on, David, why do you think he did that, when Napoleon's experience should have cautioned him?

Because all polititians believe they are better than the previous generation, Hitler allowing the US to arm Britain drained his resources combined with the Russian winter. His fate was sealed in 1940..

Todays lot do exactly the same, trying to rule the Arabs and Afghans, our previous generations failed, the Russians failed, we failed.

Germany and Japan were both utterly destroyed, it was tough for us, ten times worse for them, their rebuilt industry quickly out classed ours, while we rested on our laurels. Thatcher sealed our fate with the service economy, with help from Blair and Johnson.

GrannyGravy13

StripeyGran one of my best girlfriends is a Moslem, my nearest neighbours are strict Moslem.

Cannot understand your point

The thread starts with the sad news that an ex service man questions the state of the country. We then move on to a friend of a friend who had the unpleasant experience of being hissed at by men outide a mosque. Another poster quotes the Quran.

Then we are reminded that Muslim men routinely beat their women and that some sort of hideous retribution in the form of rape is carried out.

My point is that Muslims are like the rest of us; the good , the bad and the indifferent.

I take it no-one was interested in my post on Remembrance Sunday?

It doesn't surprise me though.

Allira

*Just a reminder to those who may have forgotten this: About 5.5 million Muslims fought on the Allied side in WW2, of whom 1.5 million lost their lives. Not just those in the British Indian Army but other Forces too. The British Indian Army was instrumental in fighting the Japanese in the Far East Campaign*.

Nobody has forgotten Allira

Many of us who have AC who have been sent to Iraq and/or Afghanistan know the other side of Islam.

One of my dearest girlfriends weeps for her Moslem sisters in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran and other fundamentalist countries.

My nearest neighbours are ashamed of what is being done in the name of their prophet.

GrannyGravy13

Allira

Just a reminder to those who may have forgotten this: About 5.5 million Muslims fought on the Allied side in WW2, of whom 1.5 million lost their lives. Not just those in the British Indian Army but other Forces too. The British Indian Army was instrumental in fighting the Japanese in the Far East Campaign.

Nobody has forgotten Allira

Many of us who have AC who have been sent to Iraq and/or Afghanistan know the other side of Islam.

One of my dearest girlfriends weeps for her Moslem sisters in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran and other fundamentalist countries.

My nearest neighbours are ashamed of what is being done in the name of their prophet.

I agree with both these posts. My working life exposed me to so many faiths and nationalities, along with living in a du erse area, leaves me bewildered by some comments.

Of course it was worth fighting for. What was the alternsstive? being taken over by a fascist dictator who would have condemned to the gas chambers the whole of the Jewish population in this country, all those who were known to be homosexual, all the disabled.

And that is just for starters, there would be anyone believed to be against the government. It was East Germany under Russian domination that brought on the system that was the Stasi. Certainly the Russians and their followers had the secret police everywhere and followed and persecuted people who disagreed. But only East germany recruited your best friend, your brother or sister or spouse to spy on you and reveal your most intimate secrets.

West Germany, under, at first the control of the Allies, who now form NATO, had none of this, so we can reasonably say that had Germany won, we would have had the stasi as well.

How anyone can think that anything we have tday is better than what we would have been if we hadn't fought.

For this ex-soldier, I know much has changed over his lifetime and since the war and for some people as they get older change is more and more difficult to accept and when things change and technologies take over that they do not understand, things can seem very frightening.

But I would much, much ,much prefer to live in our current world, despite its many imperfections than live in the country we would live in if we had succumbed to the Nazis.

Allira

MaizieD

16 to 24 year olds don't really have much of a past. So what 'past' are they nostalgic for?

Ours! The Swinging Sixties?

That's interesting, because whenever I say that our (i.e the 'boomer') generation had so many advantages that younger generations don't have I am bombarded with stories about how hard life was and how awful bits like the 70s were.

The '60s were amazing

Allira, you made an excellent point.

Thanks, I thought no-one had noticed that post, Maremia 🙂

I’m sorry the veteran feels so negatively.

I’m amazed by the grumbling about our current lives. Yes too much inequality but nothing close to that my grandparents ww1 veterans lived with. Similar with my parents 20ww2

We need to crack on, work and support each other and build onkur blessings

MaizieD

Allira

MaizieD

16 to 24 year olds don't really have much of a past. So what 'past' are they nostalgic for?

Ours! The Swinging Sixties?

That's interesting, because whenever I say that our (i.e the 'boomer') generation had so many advantages that younger generations don't have I am bombarded with stories about how hard life was and how awful bits like the 70s were.

The '60s were amazing

Well the 70s were certainly tougher with babies and toddlers!! 😁

Iam64

I’m sorry the veteran feels so negatively.

I’m amazed by the grumbling about our current lives. Yes too much inequality but nothing close to that my grandparents ww1 veterans lived with. Similar with my parents 20ww2

We need to crack on, work and support each other and build onkur blessings

Absolutely, hit the nail on the head Iam64

Maremia

Allira, you made an excellent point.

I even put it in bold, Maremia!

Never mind.

"Germany and Japan were utterly destroyed, it was tough for us ten times worse for them, they rebuilt their industry quickly and out-class ours"

In Germany's case they got massive aid via the Marshall Plan from grants and loans paid back under favourable conditions which were fully paid off by 1960. Meanwhile our loans were only paid off when Gordon Brown was PM. Also, having decimated many countries, whose wealth they also plundered during the war some of those countries migh argue that they were paid paltry reparations, if any, given the Versailles Treaty over punished them in the aftermath of WW1 and history told us what that lead to, so all in all they got off light in that respect. So whilst they certainly suffered in the immediate aftermath most of Europe was in ruins and hungry, particularly when the Red Army swept through Germany, by the mid 50s, just as we were coming out of rationing they were up and running, but they didn't do it entirely from their own efforts.

butterandjam

If Germany Hitler and Mussolini had won, Europe would be a fascist continent .

If we had been invaded, Britain would be very different today.

We'd still be ruled by foreign fascists who had sucked dry/ diverted all our global assets (last of the empire, the commonwealth) . So no influx of Commonwelath labour to rebuild Britain. No NHS. Of course we'd have no RAF, Navy or Army.

When King George VI died, Hitler would quite likely crown his old friends Duke of Windsor and Wallis .

I think similarly.
WW2 ended 80 years ago. Without their sacrifice, those 80 years would have been very different.
Life goes on, the world goes on and todays' problems are a consequence of more recent history, not a sign that it wasn't worth winning the war.
It's just how that particular veteran feels, just one opinion, not a verdict from on high.

Allira

GrannyGravy13

I think that WWII was worth the sacrifice as did my grandparents who lost siblings.

As a parent of a serving member of our armed forces, I am proud of all our service personnel past, present and those who gave their lives for ours 🙏🙏🙏

Hear hear, Grannygravy13

We can still pray for peace.

I agree👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

So do I grannygravy

TerriBull

"Germany and Japan were utterly destroyed, it was tough for us ten times worse for them, they rebuilt their industry quickly and out-class ours"

In Germany's case they got massive aid via the Marshall Plan from grants and loans paid back under favourable conditions which were fully paid off by 1960. Meanwhile our loans were only paid off when Gordon Brown was PM. Also, having decimated many countries, whose wealth they also plundered during the war some of those countries migh argue that they were paid paltry reparations, if any, given the Versailles Treaty over punished them in the aftermath of WW1 and history told us what that lead to, so all in all they got off light in that respect. So whilst they certainly suffered in the immediate aftermath most of Europe was in ruins and hungry, particularly when the Red Army swept through Germany, by the mid 50s, just as we were coming out of rationing they were up and running, but they didn't do it entirely from their own efforts.

In fact, the largest recipient of Marshall Plan money was the United Kingdom (receiving about 26% of the total). The next highest contributions went to France (18%) and West Germany (11%).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan

The money which wasn't paid back until Gordon Brown was PM was from the 1941 land-lease agreement, which paid for the UK's war machinery and was different from the Marshall Plan.