The Budget

David49

Oreo

Allira

It's ok, foxie48, it just brought back a very difficult time in our lives. It was hard keeping the children happy, warm, fed and clothed but we did.
After seven years we were able to move and things got easier.
So I do understand what it's like.

I agree Allira and it was hard for me and ex DH with two little girls living in London to make ends meet.We bought food in the market where it was much cheaper.I remember wanting a new pair of shoes and I couldn’t afford it.Children’s clothes were all second hand as were the pram and buggy and cots.
We had far far less than young parents today have and yet they think themselves hard done by!

Many of were in just that situation when we were children, of course at the time we didn’t realize how hard our parents had to work to feed the family.
In the 1950s it was a tin bath in front of the fire, a copper wash boiler in the kitchen a pump in the yard for water and a privy down the garden. Clothes were mended until there was nothing left to mend, all were handed down.

We were actually very lucky living in a village with no industrial pollution

I'm not talking about when I was a child.

I'm talking about when my children were young.

Casdon

If people of our generation have done well financially we can help our children to get the best education, get on the housing ladder, and with life’s unpredictables. They are the lucky ones. The statistics though, reflect the average - and demonstrate that this generation is less well off.

This is true. Young people doing well in the future is now based on parental ability to provide support. What matters most, whether it's covering the cost of university, a house deposit, or helping with childcare, is the wealth of your parents. This change, rather than education, your job or your hard work is now coined the era of "inheritocracy".

But surely the whole of society benefits from the support some grandparents give their children and grandchildren? And there are many tiers of support not only financial?
I remember the phrase- it takes a whole village to rear a child. The best inheritance to pass on is a resilient, creative and valued child? Not necessarily the child who will inherit vast inheritance?

I'm not talking about when I was a child. I'm talking about when my children were young. (Allira)

This is not the relevant dichotomy Allira. The Boomer Generation (born 1946-1964) had:

A rapid growing economy
Affordable housing
Free Univerity Tuition
Often no need for degree to get a "middle-class" job
A generous and expanding welfare state
Strong Unions and secure jobs
Cheap cost of living compared to wages
Part of a large generation just when they were needed
Social mobility

Our parents grew up during the Depression and WWII; we enjoyed the peace, prosperity, and social reforms that came afterward.

Our lives over the generation (generally, not personally) were a vast improvement on our parents. Our children's lives (generally not personally) were the start of going backwards. Our grandchildren (generally not personally) are continuing in that direction.

Only 7 percent of young people went to university. I would argue that social immobility was more rigidly enforced as the top jobs were given to university graduates then.
Arguably the top graduates now are leaving the Uk in search of tax free millions abroad. So the expectation of wealth has changed. One to two million is small fry.

DaisyAnneReturns

^I'm not talking about when I was a child. I'm talking about when my children were young.^ (Allira)

This is not the relevant dichotomy Allira. The Boomer Generation (born 1946-1964) had:

A rapid growing economy
Affordable housing
Free Univerity Tuition
Often no need for degree to get a "middle-class" job
A generous and expanding welfare state
Strong Unions and secure jobs
Cheap cost of living compared to wages
Part of a large generation just when they were needed
Social mobility

Our parents grew up during the Depression and WWII; we enjoyed the peace, prosperity, and social reforms that came afterward.

Our lives over the generation (generally, not personally) were a vast improvement on our parents. Our children's lives (generally not personally) were the start of going backwards. Our grandchildren (generally not personally) are continuing in that direction.

Well said, DaisyAnne 👏👏👏

But they do love their 'Four Yorkshireman' stories 😕

I'm always saddened by the fact that they don't seem able to understand that younger people might be suffering hardship, too. Just in a different way.

The problem on here seems to be that some think only they understand about the difficulties faced by the young, or not so young today.
Many of us, understand only too well as we watch our children and grandchildren struggling to find jobs, housing etc. especially if we’re not ourselves in a position to help them.
On the other hand, some young and even older people don’t understand the problems faced by their parents or grandparents. Or even worse, they dismiss them as nothing like we’re faced with today.
It would be easy to say that those comments come from the people who didn’t struggle and consequently didn’t understand how hard it was back then either.

ronib

But surely the whole of society benefits from the support some grandparents give their children and grandchildren? And there are many tiers of support not only financial?
I remember the phrase- it takes a whole village to rear a child. The best inheritance to pass on is a resilient, creative and valued child? Not necessarily the child who will inherit vast inheritance?

That wasn’t my point ronib. Of course parental economic support and the advantages it brings benefits the children of those of us who can help them. The fact that there is a growing differential between them and the average does not help the average, it just exacerbates the mountain the disadvantaged have to climb.

I think I need to disagree with you Casdon because if a society is overwhelmed by deprivation, that’s no benefit to anyone. It’s better imo if a good section of the population is sufficiently educated and self sufficient to enable benefits and support for the less fortunate. The less fortunate will always be with us? Someone needs to help them?

Mollygo

The problem on here seems to be that some think only they understand about the difficulties faced by the young, or not so young today.
Many of us, understand only too well as we watch our children and grandchildren struggling to find jobs, housing etc. especially if we’re not ourselves in a position to help them.
On the other hand, some young and even older people don’t understand the problems faced by their parents or grandparents. Or even worse, they dismiss them as nothing like we’re faced with today.
It would be easy to say that those comments come from the people who didn’t struggle and consequently didn’t understand how hard it was back then either.

Strange, isn't it that they - presumably meaning us, Mollygo seem to be unable to understand what it is like to struggle when we have not only grown up with it, experienced it ourselves and can see others struggling now.

The truth is that not everyone struggled many years ago; many of my frfiends growing up lived in large, detached homes at the 'posh' end of town and went on foreign school trips.
Some of us did struggle when our children were young and know exactly what it feels like; however, not all did.

Now we can see that some people are struggling and others are not - even in our own families and are glad they receive more help now than we did.

Those who lived the reality are seemingly dismissed by those who did not live it.

Strange.

Mollygo

Oreo
Your last paragraph sums up part of the problem.

Incidentally, we did rent 3 upstairs rooms in a house (shared front door) for quite a few years whilst we saved up the deposit. Renting a flat or house was out of the question.

Which was the 'last paragraph' which 'sums iup part of the problem,'?

Was it this?

We had far far less than young parents today have and yet they think themselves hard done by!

Because that is exactly the attitude that is saddening me.

Rachel Reeves accused of lying re budget

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/2139926/rachel-reeves-OBR-timeline-lies#

Primrose53

Rachel Reeves accused of lying re budget

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/2139926/rachel-reeves-OBR-timeline-lies#

Blimey!

It’s worth remembering that governments don’t make decisions at the level of individual experiences. They respond to patterns they see across generations. Personal impressions don’t always match the broader picture and while older people may feel like a large, stable group, demographic trends can shift their proportion and needs, and governments plan accordingly.

We know.

and governments plan accordingly therein lies the problem DaisyAnneReturns successive governments haven’t done this for a while, only going for short term planning, i.e. vote chasing strategy 🤷‍♀️

Primrose53

Rachel Reeves accused of lying re budget

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/2139926/rachel-reeves-OBR-timeline-lies#

There is evidence the Chancellor’s portrayal of the finances was at odds with the OBR’s internal view. Whether that makes it a lie - a very extreme accusation from a parliamentary point of view - depends on when exactly the Chancellor knew what, and whether she believed the OBR estimates. Given how uncertain macro-economic forecasting is, one might argue she acted in good faith.

Calling someone a liar in parliament is rare, and can be considered unparliamentary, so it may be that Badenoch feels very threatened from her own side and has decided to take a very big risk.

What a way to ruin/run a country!! Beyond belief?

GrannyGravy13

DaisyAnneReturns we have five children, four out of five definitely have more than us at comparable ages.

The fifth will by the end of 2026.

It isn’t really about individual people when discussing politics. The broader issue, raised by governments and generations of voters alike, is how and where the current generation is better or worse off than those that came before it. In the areas I mentioned, the evidence suggests they are not better off.

The comparison is always made with the previous, older generation. There is an expectation that progress should improve conditions from one generation to the next—or at least that used to be the assumption.

DaisyAnneReturns

GrannyGravy13

DaisyAnneReturns we have five children, four out of five definitely have more than us at comparable ages.

The fifth will by the end of 2026.

It isn’t really about individual people when discussing politics. The broader issue, raised by governments and generations of voters alike, is how and where the current generation is better or worse off than those that came before it. In the areas I mentioned, the evidence suggests they are not better off.

The comparison is always made with the previous, older generation. There is an expectation that progress should improve conditions from one generation to the next—or at least that used to be the assumption.

I know that DaisyAnneReturns 🤦‍♀️

I was responding to a question you asked Oreo upthread, why ask a the question, if you didn’t want an answer?

Which question was that GrannyGravy13?

Do you think you had less than your parents Oreo

DaisyAnneReturns 16.36.52 Thursday 27/11

DaisyAnneReturns

Which question was that GrannyGravy13?

Not all children have had less than their parents, equally not all children have had, will have had more than their parents.

Perhaps Rachel Reeves is amassing a war chest so she can have give-aways just before the next GE? 🤔

Really. I'd never have guessed I'm afraid GrannyGravy13

I asked "Do you think you had less than your parents", which, for our generation would not usually be the case. I expected the majority of GNs to have had a very different life; one much easier than their parents.

You kindly answered but about your five children rather than your experience in relationship to your parents experience. I must admit I was puzzled but thank you for explaining which question it was.