The Budget

What irks farmers so much is that they have to comply with a great many regulations safety, environmental, welfare and taxation that imported food doesn’t, then accept global prices.

With Trumps tariffs there is little chance of any price improvement, so food production actually looses them money

But councils take the profits under latest government legislation going forward now MaizieD. There’s still profit but it’s not going to landowners. There’s no guarantee that 1,500,000 homes will be built under this plan.
I take it you would agree to selling a field you owned for an agricultural price to your local council and you would happily see it sold on for considerably more? Come to think of it, it’s a compulsory purchase so how anyone feels is irrelevant.

David49

Casdon

David49

“I know many farmers used to believe they were born Tory but I wonder if the younger generations will feel the same? There is plenty of time for them to change”

After the IHT changes they are solidly Reform. It’s not just farmers any small business owner is in the same situation.

That’s just not true David49, you are generalising. I live in a farming community, I know they don’t all vote Reform.

The younger generations do they are the ones that are going to loose their livelihood, don’t you see all the protests that are still going on.
It’s a tax that is idealogical like private school tax it’s not going to raise much revenue, and will likely get repealed if Labour loose the next GE.

Exactly so David49 and if farmers didn’t vote Reform before… they will now! Or Conservative at the very least.
Labour have lost the countryside vote through a very stupid idealogical decision.

ronib

Yes David the rules are changing in favour of local councils and against landowners. It’s astonishing that there’s not any real msm interest. It’s a land grab by this government and we sit silently.

Well, really,*ronib*, that's the way the cookie crumbles. Rising prices aren't set in stone.

What is more important in your world? The profits to be made from selling land for building or the very real need for far more council housing?

Yes David the rules are changing in favour of local councils and against landowners. It’s astonishing that there’s not any real msm interest. It’s a land grab by this government and we sit silently.

David49

“I know many farmers used to believe they were born Tory but I wonder if the younger generations will feel the same? There is plenty of time for them to change”

After the IHT changes they are solidly Reform. It’s not just farmers any small business owner is in the same situation.

But I remember huge numbers of small farmers (and small family businesses) being lost because of a change in law by Edward Heath as President of the Board of Trade. It was intended to lower the cost of living and it achieved it along with the loss, over time, of the many small farms and shops I mentioned. Would we go back? Probably not. Food certainly became cheaper but are we better fed? I think that is questionable.

The far/hard right, whatever they call themseves at the time, are out for themselves not the general public. We need to remember that, just as we need to remember the same is true of the far/hard left.

ronib

If it’s now possible to buy up farmland under a compulsory purchase order, will it stop at farmers? For example, we have some limited development capacity as a potential building plot especially with the house next door. I think about 20 flats housing at least 40 people could replace 2 houses with 4 inhabitants.
In this situation, would the local council acquire both houses under a compulsory purchase order? After planning permission has been granted, the land is sold onto a developer with profit going to the council and developer, not the original owners?

Compulsory purchase is usually used for national infrastructure projects, HS2 is one, other road projects, in the past for “new towns”.

But they do value land at market price plus compensation for disruption, however the government can change the rules in anyway they want.

To read some posts on here, you'd think that farmers were the enemy of the people.

Then, when the shelves are empty, you'll wonder why.

“Farmers are individuals David49. They have differing financial arrangements, and inheritance plans. I know several whose children are not interested in farming whi have sold up when they reached retirement age, and invested in property for themselves and families too. It’s not one size fits all, like the rest of life.“

Yes there are a lot whose family are not interested in farming but they are still going to vote for the party that promises the best IHT regime.

David49

Casdon

David49

“I know many farmers used to believe they were born Tory but I wonder if the younger generations will feel the same? There is plenty of time for them to change”

After the IHT changes they are solidly Reform. It’s not just farmers any small business owner is in the same situation.

That’s just not true David49, you are generalising. I live in a farming community, I know they don’t all vote Reform.

The younger generations do they are the ones that are going to loose their livelihood, don’t you see all the protests that are still going on.
It’s a tax that is idealogical like private school tax it’s not going to raise much revenue, and will likely get repealed if Labour loose the next GE.

Farmers are individuals David49. They have differing financial arrangements, and inheritance plans. I know several whose children are not interested in farming whi have sold up when they reached retirement age, and invested in property for themselves and families too. It’s not one size fits all, like the rest of life.

If it’s now possible to buy up farmland under a compulsory purchase order, will it stop at farmers? For example, we have some limited development capacity as a potential building plot especially with the house next door. I think about 20 flats housing at least 40 people could replace 2 houses with 4 inhabitants.
In this situation, would the local council acquire both houses under a compulsory purchase order? After planning permission has been granted, the land is sold onto a developer with profit going to the council and developer, not the original owners?

Casdon

David49

“I know many farmers used to believe they were born Tory but I wonder if the younger generations will feel the same? There is plenty of time for them to change”

After the IHT changes they are solidly Reform. It’s not just farmers any small business owner is in the same situation.

That’s just not true David49, you are generalising. I live in a farming community, I know they don’t all vote Reform.

The younger generations do they are the ones that are going to loose their livelihood, don’t you see all the protests that are still going on.
It’s a tax that is idealogical like private school tax it’s not going to raise much revenue, and will likely get repealed if Labour loose the next GE.

David49

“I know many farmers used to believe they were born Tory but I wonder if the younger generations will feel the same? There is plenty of time for them to change”

After the IHT changes they are solidly Reform. It’s not just farmers any small business owner is in the same situation.

That’s just not true David49, you are generalising. I live in a farming community, I know they don’t all vote Reform.

“I know many farmers used to believe they were born Tory but I wonder if the younger generations will feel the same? There is plenty of time for them to change”

After the IHT changes they are solidly Reform. It’s not just farmers any small business owner is in the same situation.

We say we need land for homes farmers own most of it, brownfield sites are very limited now, when land is sold at typically £1m an acre it is taxed, CGT plus any development levy that applies, in addition the cost of planning gain ( road schools etc) comes back to the landowner.

There is a windfall for landowners close to a town or village the real winners are the developers, because demand for homes is so high they can charge what they want for houses. Current house prices are affordable or they wouldn’t sell, it’s up to the government to change taxation if they think it’s unfair.

My own thoughts are that too much money is being invested in housing growth, which results in little tax revenue at the expense of productive growth, which does get taxed.

That’s not how I understand it- MaizieD. Councils stand to make huge gains on this arrangement and it’s a moot point as to whether councils should be allowed to make huge profits from assets held by private individuals.
It feels like pot luck communism.
I am also bewildered by this approach as I imagine that farmers would face huge tax bills for land sold to private developers. So it’s unnecessary for the State to pilfer the lot as outlined under new plans.
I don’t know enough about planning laws but how likely is it that farmers would be allowed to sell land to a private developer, assuming there’s any left to sell after 1,500,000 affordable homes are built?
Not to mention the loss of land for food production!

ronib

At this point, I don’t know what I thought. Casdon . All I know is that this government also had a bill specifically on hope value and the selling of farm land for development.

Did you actually read the link, ronib? The compulsory purchase ‘power’ is for councils to buy land for social or affordable housing.

Farmers selling to developers can still get silly money.

David49

There is very strong Reform in rural areas as well as working class industrial areas, everyone was fed up with the Tories but tactical voting let a Labour government in. The LD gained a few seats but arent going to be a serious force at the next election
If Labour don’t get their act together and grow the economy, Conservative and Reform are the parties that will form the next government, I don’t think either will get a majority but a lot can change in 3 yrs.

The tactical voting wasn't set up to, as you say, to "let Labour in". Tactical voters wanted to keep the Tories out. If they where pleased about that they are allowed to be. It is still a democracy.

It's a while until the election anyway and if the truth about Trump is as appallingly as has been supposed, I would guess there will be a knock on against the appalling Farage.

I see that the Attorney General has said that as Farage has not once directly condemned Racism even though reports on his behavior as a schoolboy have come thick and fast, augmenting past reports. That story is not going to stop. So far he has been both defensive and changed his account over time. As happens to any politician, as you get yourself reported because you have a higher profile, your past and anything you say or said gets reported too.

I know many farmers used to believe they were born Tory but I wonder if the younger generations will feel the same? There is plenty of time for them to change.

It looks as if Workers Right are going to go through more quickly. That will be interesting. The Lords are trying to block it. I wonder if/when we will see the Lords go. Will a House of Regions replace it I wonder?

Comrades, the daily sceptic.com is running an article on the land grab.

The point I was making was that this government did not set the precedent ronib, it had already happened.

At this point, I don’t know what I thought. Casdon . All I know is that this government also had a bill specifically on hope value and the selling of farm land for development.

You thought that the Tories introduced new powers to use compulsory purchase (CP) to acquire land without accounting for any hope value in the compensation payment to the landowner, so that farmers couldn’t sell their land for silly money?

ronib

I thought the whole point of the exercise was that now farmers can’t sell their land for silly money? And that with inheritance tax bills to pay, farm land might have to be sold?
MaizieD

Farmers could gradually sign a percentage of the farm to their child/children and greatly reduce any inheritance tax.

I thought the whole point of the exercise was that now farmers can’t sell their land for silly money? And that with inheritance tax bills to pay, farm land might have to be sold?
MaizieD

Casdon

ronib

A slight diversion to the thread but local councils are now able to buy up farmland at agricultural rates and then develop as housing. So neat - forcing farms on to the market through changes to inheritance tax and then allow councils to make huge profits. Are we proud of this idea? So Labour!

That happened before Labour came into power?
www.fwi.co.uk/business/business-management/planning-permission/councils-gain-compulsory-purchase-powers-without-paying-hope-value

I thinkronib the idea is for councils to use the land for social housing. Which won't make large profits for the councils.

It might bother the private landlords who are making large profits from rentals and who are getting housing benefits money into the bargain.

I have to say that round our way local farmers seem delighted to make massive profits by selling off good agricultural land for housing for very silly money. I don't see much forcing going on...