The Women's Institute is to revert to being an Institute for Women

About time. The WI was meant to be for women, not men masquerading as women.

And they should stop being sorry and sending out groveling apologies that this has finally happened.

These men can find their own clubs and associations and leave women alone.

Whether people discuss it or not, transwomen are male, if we never mentioned it again, they would remain male.

I'm glad the GG have won this victory, in a residential scenario where shared sleeping quarters and showers/toilets come into play its absolutely essential for safety and dignity of girls and women they remain single sex. It's all been mentioned before, but these contentious situations always seem to go just the one way, I suppose it may occur but we rarely, if ever, read about trans men going out on a limb to access men only organisations, private spaces.

I have a trans friend who has been a valued member of her local W.I. for a number of years.
She has had the full male to female op - am not getting into a discussion whether my friend be referred to as he or she, but will be interested to hear the reaction of her fellow W.I. members who have all welcomed her, without exception.

Ridiculous! The Institution for Women sounds very much like an Institute for Women but not in a good way! It has suggestions of a 'place around the bend. We all probably know what that particular establishment is!
Some of us may be slightly eccentric, ranty, irrational Diva's but we also have more common sense than "Some people" have in their woke, right-on, pretentious, ninby-namby, social- media obsessed elbows!
Thank goodness I'm not a young woman of today because I know,
I would have been ostracized or cancelled ( as it is now known) many moons ago. Ps, I am I still allowed to say moon?????😬

Good example Witzend!

Mollygo

Jackiest

We should not stereotype people by their gender.

We shouldn’t stereotype.
But if that’s what you’ve experienced
E.g. man buying my car who spoke only to DH, until he was told by DH, that I was selling it.
Or the men who take over at Parish Council
meetings
Or the man who came to arrange our new kitchen who only asked DH what he wanted, and when DH pointed out it was our kitchen made a comment that ^she’ll be the one spending time in here.^

It’s not just men!
We once had a double glazing saleswoman (I’ll call her A) - young, wearing a see through blouse and batting her eyelashes a lot at him) who addressed every single remark to dh.

We’d had 2 other very similar quotes, from men, who addressed us both.

When the time came to choose, Dh said ‘I think we’ll go with A, shall we?’

I said, ‘Because you could admire her cleavage and she batted her eyelashes at you? I think not!’
We didn’t!

Jackiest

We should not stereotype people by their gender.

We shouldn’t stereotype.
But if that’s what you’ve experienced
E.g. man buying my car who spoke only to DH, until he was told by DH, that I was selling it.
Or the men who take over at Parish Council
meetings
Or the man who came to arrange our new kitchen who only asked DH what he wanted, and when DH pointed out it was our kitchen made a comment that she’ll be the one spending time in here.

It would be interesting to know how many women have left WI because trans women joined the group.
There aren't any trans in the small group in my village but knowing some of the women who attend I think they would be uncomfortable with it.

GoodAfternoonTea

*@ Doodledog - In many (not all) mixed-sex groups men dominate, as many women have been socialised to defer to them, and to behave differently in 'mixed company'. *

This is so true. I have been to see a male nutritionist and in our 3/4 hour session he spoke for most of the time. An electrician came to sort out something in our house and he spoke the whole time to my husband. They introduce a different dynamic.

Yes I can think of some men that dominate the conversation I can also think of some women that do. There are also men that are timid and quiet also some women. We should not stereotype people by their gender.

What rather appalled me was the wording from the Girl Guides to say that they were making this change ‘with heavy hearts….’
I dare say the WI said something similar.

@ Doodledog - In many (not all) mixed-sex groups men dominate, as many women have been socialised to defer to them, and to behave differently in 'mixed company'.

This is so true. I have been to see a male nutritionist and in our 3/4 hour session he spoke for most of the time. An electrician came to sort out something in our house and he spoke the whole time to my husband. They introduce a different dynamic.

It was a guide leader who had been kicked out of guides and was on MN, Katie alcock who i remember as being one of the first to raise this issue, that must have been a decade ago at least. I remember her desperate attempts with regard to safeguarding. I have just googled and seen she did try a legal challenge years ago, it wasn't clear in the reporting what happened

I will also be interested to see what happens there, Galaxy. A friend of mine 'retired' from Guiding as a result of the issue. She would have gone within a short space of time anyway, but her decision to go when she did was based on tnot wanting to lie by omission to parents about boys in what were assumed to be girls' tents. She was by no means alone.

If it wasn't so serious ( in particular with regard to the safeguarding issues in relation to girl guides) it would be very funny watching the organisations still pandering to men with their apologies for having to follow the law.
I will be interested to see what will happen to the women who had to leave their positions in guiding over this issue, I wonder if they will be able to make a legal challenge.

Chardy

So based on this, should Scouts revert to being male-only? Or Gransnet only be for those with grandchildren?

Neither of those organisations advertises themselves as being single-sex, so it's an entirely false equivalence. GN specifically says that being a grandparent is not a condition of joining (it describes itself as being for the over 50s), and Scouting dropped the 'Boy' some time ago when it became unisex.

The Women's Institute's 'About Us' info reads:
The WI is a unique organisation shaped by its members. In 1915, we set out to give women a voice and to be a force for good in the community. Since then, our members and our ambitions alike have grown tremendously. Today, we are the largest women’s organisation in the UK and we pride ourselves on being a trusted place for women of all generations, to share experiences and learn from each other. A WI membership offers the opportunity to meet women in your local area in-person and virtually, to make friends and make a difference in your community. We campaign nationally on a wide range of issues and provide life-long learning and self-development opportunities for women in England and Wales. (my emboldening)

If the WI wants to include men, they could be the Institute, or the People's Institute, the Adults' Institute, or whatever it likes, so long as its mission statements and advertising does not state that it exists as 'a trusted place for women of all generations'. I suspect that if it did so it would attract a very different membership demographic.

In many (not all) mixed-sex groups men dominate, as many women have been socialised to defer to them, and to behave differently in 'mixed company'. As an example, Peter Wenham joined as Petra Wenham after beginning to 'live as a woman' in 2018. Wenham appeared on the cover of the WI magazine soon afterwards, and was elevated to National Membership Committee status in 2013 - something that usually takes many years to achieve.

I don't know what will happen to existing male memberships - does a WI member (or anyone) know the answer to that? I know that as of April it will be illegal to base any memberships (including Guiding and other single-sex groups) on anything other than biological sex, but I'm not sure if the law will apply retrospectively.

Girls who go to scouts generally don't pretend to be boys to go there. That's the difference

Chardy

So based on this, should Scouts revert to being male-only? Or Gransnet only be for those with grandchildren?

No because biological sex does not govern whether one becomes a grandparent or not.

However, it is quite within the remit of GN to exclude people who are not grandparents, should they so choose. Otherwise every special interest group in the countrycould, in theory, be taken over by a flash mob of uninterested members.

model railway groups where not a single member has any interest in model railways. Oh horror!

It isnt that they are a danger in the WI, it is that it is an organisation for women. In the same way that a woman isn't a danger if she attends a support group for men with mental health issues, she just has no business being there.

It should never have been allowed in an organisation specifically for women. I do feel sorry for those trans women who have been attending WI for years and are now banned as most are not a danger to women.

The right decision has been made and WI need to stop stating that trans women are women. They are not. They are men and always will be.

Entirely different Gransnet being for grannies. Anyone on any group can say or be what they want, we don't know, If you are biologically male or female you should not sharing and participating in a group you are not biologically part of. That should be a safe space to interact, if it is a group open to anyone, thats different. Also cannot abide toilets for mixed sexes, think they should be separate. Mens toilets always smell. I have mistakenly walked into the wrong ones at times and it was the smell that alerted me.

It is really simple if the WI want men to join then they would define their organisation as mixed sex. What they can't do is call it a womans organisation and include men.

Chardy

So based on this, should Scouts revert to being male-only? Or Gransnet only be for those with grandchildren?

Scouts chose to admit girls and become a mixed sex group because their numbers were falling. Guides have not experienced the same drop off, but admitted boys who 'identify' as girls to 'be kind'. Scouts do not allow mixed sex accommodation when camping etc, Guides have allowed transgirls (males) to share accommodation with girls without informing the girls' parents for 'privacy reasons'. Totally different situations. As for Gransnet etc, that should be for the organisers to decide membership qualification as long as it is open and honest so everyone knows where they stand.

I suppose strictly speaking Gransnet should be for grandparents only, which means I shouldn't be allowed on here. However, I tried Mumsnet and found the vulgar language disquieting so joined here instead. There isn't another site quite like this one.

Chardy

So based on this, should Scouts revert to being male-only? Or Gransnet only be for those with grandchildren?

If you want to argue that go ahead.

Scouts are no longer called Boy Scouts. Girls can join without having to tell untruths about their birth sex.

Grans?
That’s possibly more difficult to argue but if you can evidence one non-grandparent on GN who has harmed others by being here, you’d have a good case for going forward.