Should men be banned from working in nurseries?

Sorry I mean the over 3 ' s which is the pre school rooms. I am in over 50 nurseries per year, many pre school rooms have only 2 or 3 staff.
So even with a ratio of 1:8, you could have three staff with 16 children, two gone leaves one staff with the rest of the children.

Thank you foxie though, I am not trying to mislead, I am trying to explain the situation i see daily.
I see a mix of provision, what would have once been described as council nurseries, these sometimes have a teacher leading the room, then there are the chain nurseries, and then provision in church halls.
I would also say that more and more I am seeing very young supply staff. There is nothing wrong with being very young of course, but it all adds to a picture.

Sadly I don't think it's possible to keep every child safe in every situation, very bad people will always find an opportunity to find a way of committing their vile crimes and if they find certain occupations blocked to them they will find another way of accessing children. I think there's good reasons to have men working with children. The can be role models for those children living in female only households and demonstrating that men can be equally effective as care givers, breaking down some of the stereotypes about how men should behave. I also think they might be more aware of behaviours in another man that might be a red flag.
I've unfortunately come across two paedophiles in my life that I know of! The first was a children's entertainer who was a very popular choice for children's parties. My daughter went to several, he was never left on his own with children or with a lone child but he still managed to molest them. The other was a man who volunteered with a club that my daughter was a member of, I also knew him socially. I avoided him because he tended to invade my personal space and one dance with him at a social event was enough to tell me he was far too handy for my taste! He was convicted of viewing the most vile child pornography and got several years in prison. However, despite this I don't immediately assume every children's entertainer or male volunteer is a paedophile and neither should we assume that about any male wanting to work with children.

👏👏

As a teacher I have met many great men working in the caring professions. The problem is not men, it is abusers.

For those people saying they would never allow soneone else to change their child's nappy, what happens if you are sick or physically incapacitated at any time. Do you not even allow their father to do it.

MaggsMcG

For those people saying they would never allow soneone else to change their child's nappy, what happens if you are sick or physically incapacitated at any time. Do you not even allow their father to do it.

Or grandparents? Childminder? Never have a babysitter? 🤔

Also only men (or small
Number of women) would be sexually aroused by changing a nappy.

I think people are talking about male childcare workers who are unrelated to the children. No one has said anything whatsoever about not allowing fathers to change their children’s nappies. Funny how people twist things.

nanna8

I think people are talking about male childcare workers who are unrelated to the children. No one has said anything whatsoever about not allowing fathers to change their children’s nappies. Funny how people twist things.

I'mnot sure it is twisting. The question comes I think from the somewhat astounding comments being made about men in general within the context of looking after young children

Not 'twisting things', if you are seeking clarification.

My lovely gs worked in a nursery, the children loved him and so did most of the parents. It was the other ( female) staff who were obnoxious and did their utmost to make his life difficult. He moved to another nursery and again met with predjudice, one mother started stalking him! He is a kind, patient young man who cares deeply about children but was forced to change his career because of his gender, so very wrong!! One of the worst offenders against small children was a female nurse, its not the sex of the perpetrator its their character.

Female nursery workers sometimes abuse their charges.. It’s about abuse - not gender.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-49684939

I feel very strongly indeed that we need to look more carefully at this reaction against employing men, and I shall tell you why.

My Granddaughter, not at age 11, has to receive caring from and agency, which deals with children of all ages. And before people rush in, "but she's 11! not a nursery!

She has a mental age of 4 as do many other Special Needs Children. She has started her periods. But she is now so heavy a lot of women cannot lift her up and onto a commode, or in and out of a car. Some of the children, including my grandchild, who has virtually no sight, epilepsy, cerebral palsy, as well as learning diffiuclties:

Have behavioural difficulties which means they may hit out and this behaviour has to be physically contained of course in the most benign ways.

My DGD's carer at home is now mainly her Dad, as DiL has not the strength to cope, and she is quite a big woman as it is.

We need caring lovely men like my DS. It's quite crazy to pick on very rare examples and ban men altogether.

btw, there are nearly always 2 carers working as a team, but not on every single occasion - it would make viable pricing absolutely impossible.

the same goes for the schools she has been in, primary Schools from nursery and now first year in secondary school. its essential to have men: not only for "heavy lifting" and benign containing, but as male role models, males in their very restricted lives.

correct - now at age 11.

I ran childrens homes for many years, even back then we had hoists for those who needed them, it isn't actually a good idea to have the expectation that male staff deal with behaviour and lifting. Whilst we had male staff, it would have meant that if they were the only ones who vould manage behaviour, chidren with behavioural issues wouldnt be able to attend the service for most of the time, all staff should be trained in behaviour management.

Of course all staff have training in behavioural management.

There are some tasks that can't be done by hoists and so on Galaxy, as you very well know. One example is getting someone not in a wheelchair in and out of a car or van.

But you are missing something huge

My DGD happens to respond better to male carers than women - at the moment. Some boys might also respond better to men, and of course vice versa, some girls or boys respond better to women. It will be a lifelong job to care for L, and other like her, and it clearly needs the normality of both men and women to be involved in this kind of work.

The idea of her being confined lifelong to women only becuase of your prejudices against men seems not only unfair but quite cruel, frankly. Our most disabled people deserve as "normal" a life as possible.

I don't have prejudices against men thankyou very much. I have an understanding of risk.
I managed a childrens home which included young people up to 19. I have never in all my time had to ensure men were on duty in order to facilitate moving and handling. I am not sure where people would stand legally to be honest in asking only men to participate in moving and handling.
I also think the original discussion was about nursery workers rather than care staff, they are different roles. I have employed male staff in caring roles for a very long time.
I have mixed views about nurseries but statistically men are more likely to commit sexual abuse of children, people need to understand that.

DiamondLily:" Female nursery workers sometimes abuse their charges.. It’s about abuse - not gender.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-49684939" and

andrea67: 'One of the worst offenders against small children was a female nurse, its not the sex of the perpetrator its their character'.

Agree it's about abuse not gender. There is a place for male and females the key issue is recruitment, monitoring, governance and safe working practices.

Of the top of my head, i think men commit 97 % of child sexual abuse.
Men and women generally have different patterns of offending. Women at one stage were more likely to shoplift, although am not sure that is true now, as shoplifting seems to becoming more of an organised crime.

Galaxy - you say you ar not anti-men, but your posts speak otherwise.

And you also will recall that I speak as a women who endured and escaped a coercively abusive marriage, police involved, the lot, and recently was sexually assulted in a religious setting, again, charges laid and a guilty plea, and it has affected me profoundly

but I do not go around assuming all men are like them

I've tried to find the statistics- The NSPCC website re child sex abuse figures: ' We don't know how many children in the UK experience sexual abuse. However, research with children 11-17 about their experiences of sexual abuse suggests 1 in 20 children in the UK have been sexually abused".

Child abuse data is collected by children's' services, police forces, criminal courts etc. E.g. Office of National Statistics website in May 2025 can produce statistics for Child Abuse in England and Wales for 2019. The BBC reported in 2019 there had been a 80% increase of reports of sexual offences against children by women.

However specifically nursery worker under age 5 sex abuse data in nursery setting is not easily available or broken down by gender. The ONS does not hold such statistics. The ONS advises making a FOI request for Police recorded crime from the Home Office to ask whether such data is available.

Meanwhile each conviction of nursery worker for sex abuse of a nursery age child we get to see in the news headlines. We do know that both male and female nursery workers have been convicted in the past few years.

Galaxy

Because the risk for child sex abuse is higher for males. People do need to understand that. As I say you can accept that the benefits of having male staff outweigh the risk but you can't pretend you aren't increasing the risk.

The figures could be biased. Men suspected more, watched more, found out more. Nice work ing mother like Vanessa George assumed to be safe. She was caught but did she get away with it for longer than a man? Hard to know.

Galaxy- Do you know the figures captured by the Crown Prosecution service, say for last 5 years period available, of child sex abuse of nursery age children by male and female nursery workers? If so what proportion were male compared to female?

This post is not about all the broad categories of child sex abuse of children 10 to 18. It is specific to nursery age children whilst being cared for in a nursery setting- a very much smaller sample.

I have not been able to find such data so find it hard to accept an assertion that men present a 97% risk as nursery workers of abusing small children in their care- it doesn't match with the news paper headlines I've read.

Peaseblossom

He's the father, so hardly the same thing, so keep your hair on!

Isn't abuse most likely to be parents or close family.