Phillip Young accused of 56 offences including multiple counts of rape and administering substance with intent to stupefy his ex wife Joanne Young. She has waived her legal right to anonomity

Exactly Vice Versa, real efforts were needed to obtain the real nasties. Sex offenders often start small, eg indecent exposure, then gradually escalate as the need for excitement needs more stimulation

Yes, exactly, Iam64. I daresay when many of us were teenagers, the only access to porn would have been the odd discarded 'dirty' magazine or book, but now there's a whole seedy world of extreme pornography available to everyone at the touch of a button, so to speak.

Those of us whose work meant involvement with sex offenders will be aware of levels of depravity and that sexual abuse of women and children is as old as time.

My concern is that easy access to extreme pornography is now available on a smart phone. One outcome is the normalisation of sexual practices that bring physical and emotional risks and thst have not and imo should not be seen as mainstream.

I’m not sure how we change this but we’d be wise to block the phones of under 16s (18s?)

Yes and porn is utterly different now, I think it was the Tories who were going to do an investigation on the impact, but it never happened.

I'm sure many did get away with things then, yes - but with the internet so readily available now, you cannot tell me that young people are aware of things like this at a much earlier age than before? Are you trying to tell me that things like strangulation during sex were widely known about - never mind practised - when you were a teenager?

I'm not sure that they are more widespread Viceversa How would we have heard of such things in the patriarchal days when a man could decide whether it was worth teaching his daughters or servants to read? How, before radio and television, did we know much about societies other than our own. And now we have technology. So both information about evil deeds and the tracking down of those who practice them have grown but the actual numbers may not have done. It's a horrible thought but many more may have simply got away with their wickedness.

Tip of the iceberg, I suspect. How many more women has this happened to?

Why do some husband's, in this day and age, regard a wife as property?

DaisyAnneReturns

ViceVersa

Galaxy

Yep strangulation is frequently a key feature in porn, young people are growing up thinking that is normal.

Indeed - and it's not just strangulation. There are many other 'practices' which are now thought of as normal when not so long ago, they would have been seen as fetishes - or worse.
When I read about this particular case, it did make me wonder how many others there are out there who have been subjected to the same thing.

I think it's naive to think these things haven't always existed. Some men have always seen women (and children) as simply there for their own satisfaction. Like everything else we just hear/read/watch more about it now.

What we need to remember is that it's never been all men and many are just as horrified as we are.

I don't think anyone is saying that these things haven't always existed, but they are far more widespread now, especially among a much younger age group. Things which were once seen as fairly extreme 'kinks' are now being more openly paraded - and you can't tell me that young girls in particular aren't being pressurised into taking part in some sexual activities which used to be considered fairly taboo in mainstream society.

ViceVersa

Galaxy

Yep strangulation is frequently a key feature in porn, young people are growing up thinking that is normal.

Indeed - and it's not just strangulation. There are many other 'practices' which are now thought of as normal when not so long ago, they would have been seen as fetishes - or worse.
When I read about this particular case, it did make me wonder how many others there are out there who have been subjected to the same thing.

I think it's naive to think these things haven't always existed. Some men have always seen women (and children) as simply there for their own satisfaction. Like everything else we just hear/read/watch more about it now.

What we need to remember is that it's never been all men and many are just as horrified as we are.

Useful to know that fact - ie re strangulation being illegal. I would say it is possible to see that a man who wanted to do something like that = it would be about "control" and not about sex per se if you see what I mean. I can see how the nastier type of man would push his luck to see if a woman would allow that much "control" over her. If he thinks she's so tied up in thinking no normal man would want her, or concerned that she felt threatened if she escaped him = I guess one could see why some women might stay put and accept that sort of behaviour - as they don't believe they deserve any better or feel scared as to whether he'd come after them if they tried to "escape" from him.

I'm only too glad personally that - many years back - when the boyfriend of the time slapped my face during the course of an argument I instantly found I'd got an emotional "off switch" and it instantly turned off on the spot literally in seconds. I hadn't known that anyone had an emotional "off switch" - certainly hadn't known that I have one. But it flicked up instantly and I picked up my bag and walked out the door on the spot - because I am quite certain I do not deserve to be treated that way.

So I'm certainly curious how many people have such a "trip switch" and/or enough self-respect to think "I don't deserve this" and to instantly remove themselves from such a situation.

Certainly one way to approach this is for women to bring up female children to have self-respect and know they have the right to instantly walk out if they are being treated like that. Obviously also to bring up male children that they must treat everyone with the respect they deserve and going in for such behaviour is absolutely wrong. There's a happy medium between being "entitled" and knowing what respect/care one deserves and that is very much a life lesson to be learnt.

The adult "children" also need to monitor whether they've been taught this appropriately or need to self-educate to some extent. I'm looking back in a different context now - to where I was absolutely shocked one time to be told by my own father (!!!!!!) that maybe I should accept my health being damaged by the employer of the time as "one of those things - to be put up with to earn a living" !!!!!!. Thank goodness I'd learnt a bit about self-respect and what is and isn't reasonable already by then - as I just registered shock at anyone saying something like that to me - and ignored it and kept up the refusal to have that happen to me. Yep - it's all about finding a balance between self-respect (ie "I deserve to be treated fairly") and not self-entitlement in so many contexts.

It is very important to know/educate oneself if need be what constitutes bad treatment and to remove oneself from the situation - no matter who tries to tell you "It's one of those things - accept it...could be worse". Bad treatment is never acceptable - in any context. Coining a phrase "See it/name it/leave it".


That applies in all spheres of life.

In the UK strangulation during sex is illegal, even if the individuals ‘consent’. The legislation came in June 2022 under the domestic abuse act 2021.
It’s very dangerous to the person being strangled. Why any man would want to strangle or any partner consent is a real worry

There was another (apparently separate) case in the news a few days ago, where someone else was arrested for "intentionally strangling" his ex-wife several times over a period of years. That too is now sub judice, so I won't mention his name. It does make me wonder whether an investigation is going on into this horrible and dangerous practice, and those who use it on their (supposedly) loved ones.

It makes me sick what some women, particularly young girls feel they have to submit to for men's (some) gratification These men are not caring people. I'm picking my words because I don't want to besmirch men per se, I've only ever involved myself with decent ones. A small number I hasten to add.

Porn has so much to answer for, as mentioned up thread it's very readily available. It warps and distorts young minds. There are victims of this pernicious trade, do those viewers give a damn about them, seemingly not. Positively evil imo and no way to rein it in. The big tech companies don't do enough in that respect.

And the women who question those fetishes are seen as prudes, it is boundary pushing step by step .

Galaxy

Yep strangulation is frequently a key feature in porn, young people are growing up thinking that is normal.

Indeed - and it's not just strangulation. There are many other 'practices' which are now thought of as normal when not so long ago, they would have been seen as fetishes - or worse.
When I read about this particular case, it did make me wonder how many others there are out there who have been subjected to the same thing.

Yep strangulation is frequently a key feature in porn, young people are growing up thinking that is normal.

My first thought is this poor woman will have taken moral strength from the fact that Gisele Pelicot came forward when this sort of thing happened to her. I think we all admired Gisele for her moral courage - and there she was openly dealing with all this and turning up at that court head held high and elegantly dressed and good on her for being so brave and determined.

I am not surprised other women have come forward now and said the same sort of thing has happened to them - and feel sure they have taken courage and inspiration from Gisele on this.

For too long "marriage" has been a closed book and no-one has known (or maybe cared?) too much about what has gone on privately. It's very positive that women are now coming forward and saying "Me too - it happened to me as well".

I think part of the reason this sort of thing has been kept secret for so long is because there's been a lot invested in "women shutting up and putting up". It's certainly time women fought back against being treated this way.

The other thing is I've read about this new trend of "strangulation" during sex and the figures were rather high as to how many young women have had this done to them - don't recall the exact number - but I think it was something enormous like around 50% (!!!!!) of young women that have had a boyfriend try that on them. That is appalling of itself and also appalling that it looks as if most of these women are walking out the door afterwards/maybe even staying dating the man for a while - rather than running out the door screaming blue murder and telling everyone what the man is like and to avoid him (as he's not normal).

We have to "name and shame" bad conduct - of any description (sexual or otherwise). I know that's something I do if conduct warrants it (ie I think half the town I'm in now knows exactly where the little thief that stole a bit of money from me and was after more lives - as I've made sure to warn them).

Basically yep and "shine the spotlight" on characters like this and this sort of conduct won't stop until they all know they will be "spotlighted".

I can't read about it in detail and won't because it makes me feel quite unwell . I am unable to understand these depraved people . Could it be their brains are miswired or damaged , however many questions we ask we will never know . Sadly the world seems to be full of these evil people and it frightens me for the young generations.

Iam64

That’s one of the things I’m pondering, Sarnia. Is there an increase in sexual offences against women and children. Pre-internet, ‘extreme pornography’ was difficult to get hold of, now it’s available on iPhones.

It's so frightening, isn't it? We can put astronauts into space, carry out organ transplants but cannot shut down these appalling media sites.
I am looking after my 2 youngest GD's today and have just confiscated the youngest one's ( just 11) mobile phone because whatever she was watching on it was liberally sprinkled with the 'F' word. Not on my watch, matey. I shall ignore the death stares coming my way. I am made of tough stuff.

I also worry about how many women have been drugged in bars etc. and have no idea about what they were subjected to afterwards.

That’s one of the things I’m pondering, Sarnia. Is there an increase in sexual offences against women and children. Pre-internet, ‘extreme pornography’ was difficult to get hold of, now it’s available on iPhones.

Here we go again.
Gisele Pelicot's case was so shocking, so extreme, that many thought it was unique but clearly not. In Phillip Young we have our homegrown disgusting abuser which makes me wonder how many women around the world have been and are being treated in this way.
All credit to Joanne Young and those who have encouraged her decision to waive anonymity. Gisele Pelicot was right when she said it is the men who should be ashamed in cases where women have been raped and abused. I daresay her dignified bravery may have played a part in Joanne Young standing up publicly against those who degraded her so cruelly.
Lock up all those concerned in this and throw away the key.
There seems to be an increase in sexual crimes against women. With 8 granddaughters, I despair.

This matter is sub judice

These men have always found each other but the internet must have made it so much easier to identify those who want to join other men in abusing women.

RosiesandherMaw, I’ve asked the question - why are so many men sexually attracted to children, to sexually abusing women? So far, no one has responded.

I’m tormented with you Galaxy

Is it getting worse or, do we know more because of prosecutions, eg organised sexual abuse and exploitation by gangs of men

It is the fact that in this and the French case, there were a number of men that torments me. How many of those conversations were there? How many times did he suggest this to men, and they said no but didn't
report. How did he identify those who would say yes.