Andy Burnham blocked from re-entering parliament.

This argument raises the question as to why MPs who defect to another party are allowed to continue representing their new party when not elected to it. Should they also be blocked from continuing as MPs, as they too have not served the term for which they were elected?

Well said, Barry Thorne 👏👏👏

They're the ones who are not doing their jobs and representing their constituents in the way they were chosen to do.

But if after those 30 years you try to stage a coup against your party leader you surely forfeit your right to normal courtesies.

He didn't stage a coup.

He wanted to stand for election as an MP.

Some letters in today’s Times. The one from a former MEP is interesting…
Sir, Andy Burnham complains that after 30 years in the Labour Party he deserved better than to hear about Labour's national executive committee decision via the media. But if after those 30 years you try to stage a coup against your party leader you surely forfeit your right to normal courtesies. Contrast that with the quiet dignity and decency of the prime minister.
Sir Leigh Lewis
Permanent secretary, Department for Work and Pensions 2005-10; Watford
Sir, The blocking of Andy Burnham from standing for Labour in the Gorton & Denton by-election has been defended by Steve Reed on the grounds of serving out his four-year term as mayor. This argument raises the question as to why MPs who defect to another party are allowed to continue representing their new party when not elected to it. Should they also be blocked from continuing as MPs, as they too have not served the term for which they were elected?
Barry Thorne
Hessett, Suffolk
Sir, However much I, and many other Labour Party stalwarts, admire Andy Burnham, the national executive committee is right to be consistent in refusing to create an unnecessary by-election for Greater Manchester mayor. When I served as a Labour MEP it was always made clear that we could not contest a Commons seat as it would create a European parliamentary by-election. Likewise sitting Labour MPs at Westminster were told they were unable to contest a seat in the European parliament.
Burnham is doing a great job in Manchester and at some point we'd be delighted to have him back in Westminster and on the front bench, but this is not the time or the way.
David Hallam
Labour MEP 1994-99; Smethwick, West Midlands

Andy Burnham is a great Mayor. He should stick with that role. Up here they call him the king of the north, he’s not my king.
I doubt most of the Westminster politicians know anything about him. Hopefully another failed power grab from John McDonald and the ridiculous Jeremy Corbyn.

GrannyGravy13

Ilovecheese

There was a good policy announced today. Ground rents are to be capped at £250 per year. Why announce that when Starmer is out of the country? What a missed opportunity for him to announce it himself and show that he is actually doing things.

He did announce it himself on TikTok

Well that is something I suppose.

Ilovecheese

Longest waits (65+/78+ weeks) - Substantial reduction
Overall 18-week performance - Below target
A&E & ambulance standards - Below constitutional standards
Cancer diagnosis & treatment - Improving and at high levels
GP appointments & workforce - Expanding capacity
Productivity - Growing modestly

Waits of over 78 weeks have been reduced by about 93% from their peak. So it’s been a good start, and although some areas are taking longer than others, each improvement allows attention to shift elsewhere and helps progress accelerate. Overall, I’m quite impressed, especially given this is still the early part of a five-year plan.

eazybee

What I take from this current charade involving Andy Burnham is that Starmer has absolutely no intention of stepping down, even if the remaining local elections (always assuming they are allowed to take place) are even more disastrous than predicted, and that he will use every scrap of his legal know-how to remain in power.
What his intentions for the future are unclear but the concerns of the electorate or his party do not predominate.
As for forming a pact with the Lib Dems , the ones where I live are mostly Labour anyway, recalling student politics from long ago, champagne socialists to a person, but support Lib Dems because they are committed to changing as little as possible of their very comfortable lifestyles. They support labour policies particularly because they don't actually impinge on them here but are awfully good for the rest of the country.

Why on earth would he stand down? Democratically elected with a whopping great majority, he doesn’t need to resort to legal know how to stay in post! He was elected for a 5 year term. Anyone who honestly expected a turnaround of the appalling state of the economy as they took it on was incredibly naive and unrealistic. That people’s daft expectations haven’t been fulfilled is on them. Let’s see if things are on the up in 3 years, shall we?

Ilovecheese

There was a good policy announced today. Ground rents are to be capped at £250 per year. Why announce that when Starmer is out of the country? What a missed opportunity for him to announce it himself and show that he is actually doing things.

He did announce it himself on TikTok

There was a good policy announced today. Ground rents are to be capped at £250 per year. Why announce that when Starmer is out of the country? What a missed opportunity for him to announce it himself and show that he is actually doing things.

Ilovecheese

Allira "Are waiting lists down? Truly? The NHS seems to be in chaos; perhaps, as happens in Wales, people's names are either not put on the list in the first place or their names disappear from the list."

I realise that my own experience is not evidence, of course, but my perception is that yes, they have gone down and that the system is more reactive. Alternative appointments are offered when they become available. However, this system relies on access to the internet to log on to various apps to claim the appointments, which is a different discussion, not one for this thread.

My experience, and that of a few others I know, is that, mysteriously, names were not put on waiting lists or disappeared from them.

It does, of course, reduce the waiting lists.

That’s one take eazybee. It’s also notable though that only just over 50 Labour MPs are lobbying for a change of decision to allow Andy Burnham to stand. Why is that?

I believe there’s an east/west split in the UK politically, as well as the dynamics around the four nations. Im convinced that not everybody in the south west is a woolly Lib Dem sometime Labour leaning thinker.

What I take from this current charade involving Andy Burnham is that Starmer has absolutely no intention of stepping down, even if the remaining local elections (always assuming they are allowed to take place) are even more disastrous than predicted, and that he will use every scrap of his legal know-how to remain in power.
What his intentions for the future are unclear but the concerns of the electorate or his party do not predominate.
As for forming a pact with the Lib Dems , the ones where I live are mostly Labour anyway, recalling student politics from long ago, champagne socialists to a person, but support Lib Dems because they are committed to changing as little as possible of their very comfortable lifestyles. They support labour policies particularly because they don't actually impinge on them here but are awfully good for the rest of the country.

There may be a coalition. No party aims for that however- they simply to strengthen their party as much as possible to win.

Allira "Are waiting lists down? Truly? The NHS seems to be in chaos; perhaps, as happens in Wales, people's names are either not put on the list in the first place or their names disappear from the list."

I realise that my own experience is not evidence, of course, but my perception is that yes, they have gone down and that the system is more reactive. Alternative appointments are offered when they become available. However, this system relies on access to the internet to log on to various apps to claim the appointments, which is a different discussion, not one for this thread.

Anniebach

Labour won the general election July 2024, Whitewave you expected miracles in 1 year 7 months after 14 years of a Tory government ? I can’t recall Starmer promising we could

No I’m not looking for miracles - certainly not.

But I am looking for far more pro activity from Labour.

What Starmer lacks imo is courage, and imagination.

There is stuff he has done with which I am pleased about, but my focus is and always has been on poverty, health and children in particular, which is why I was so impressed with Gordon Brown. Those are the areas that need addressing.

That said, I am not at present a supporter of a change of leadership. Quite frankly I am not convinced that the Labour Party is exactly stuffed with potential leaders. In fact I think that is true of every single political party in the U.K.

I think the LibDems will do better than being painted here. My current prediction is for a coalition, I don’t see any one party getting a majority. That is even more likely in the event of Scotland and Wales not voting for any of the UK wide major parties, which may well happen.

The main concern regarding Starmer's leadership is how he is perceived negatively within his own government, by Labour members and the public. Keeping as PM runs a high risk the his negative rating results in a failure to secure a second term.

Labour won the general election July 2024, Whitewave you expected miracles in 1 year 7 months after 14 years of a Tory government ? I can’t recall Starmer promising we could

But Starmer hasn't shown much 'boring competence' in his initial year. It's been one stupid move after another and numerous U turns.

He's being reactive rather than proactive.

All well and good to acknowledge when you've made a mistake (intransigence can be dangerous) but the Government seems unable to think through the consequences of their decisions, hence so many U turns.

Are waiting lists down? Truly? The NHS seems to be in chaos; perhaps, as happens in Wales, people's names are either not put on the list in the first place or their names disappear from the list.

I respectfully disagree Allira- if Conservatives stay loyal to Badenoch they will lose, they will lose anyway realistically. If Labour stays loyal to Starmer then it will split the vote, therefore they will lose also.

The UK electorate was disillusioned and uncertain before Burnham sought to stand at the by election.

Casdon

The influence of Russia, and Trump copycatting is what I think is going on. The media generally pursues a right wing agenda for the self preservation of the owners and shareholders, and because they see the unpopularity of the Tories with the public, Reform is the only place they can go to pursue their own agenda. I think all moderate electors should be praying for the resurgence of a moderate right Tory party at the moment, that’s the best chance of stability for the country.

Unfortunately the infighting on both main parties is creating a vacuum and, although the Lib Dems should be the ones who could fill that vacuum, they are being sidelined by Reform.

Unless the Tories and Labour each decide to remain loyal to their party and their leader then, by the next election, Reform could sweep in.
Perhaps another coalition of either Labour or Tory with the Lib Dems could be the answer.

Too little loyalty, too many egos are wrecking politics at the moment and it's making the electorate feel uncertain.

Ilovecheese Tue 27-Jan-26 11:23:19 "I see that Polly Toynbee in the Guardian thinks that it's time for Starmer to go. She has been his cheerleader for years".

I read that also Ilovecheese. She feels Labour needs a new leader and fast: " Here is the Starmer tragedy, a good and clever man may not be made for politics or leadership". Many of the points she makes have merit in my view.

MaizieD

^But after the chaos of recent years, boring competence feels like a feature, not a flaw.^

But Starmer hasn't shown much 'boring competence' in his initial year. It's been one stupid move after another and numerous U turns.

I don't agree with Rabbitgran at all.

I don’t think “boring competence” means never changing course Maizie. Some of what you’re calling U-turns look to me like adjustments in response to circumstances.

But these are judgement calls. Reasonable people can look at the same year and come to different conclusions.

So I am pleased that Labour has adopted the policies she outlined in her last sentence, but I can see very little evidence that this is happening, or that policies are being instigated that will clearly improve the situation for so many of us.

Today there is a report by Rowntree which says that 3.8 million people in the U.K. have experienced destitution. The definition of destitution is where someone has absolutely nothing.

6.8 million people are in deep poverty - where their income (a couple with 2 children) at less than £16k pa is insufficient to provide, warmth, food and the ability to pay for basics.

Rising numbers of people are constantly food insecure.

The progress has stalled. The system is failing these people.

I see that Polly Toynbee in the Guardian thinks that it's time for Starmer to go. She has been his cheerleader for years.