We can all visit China now.

Why are negotiations with other countries by our Prime Minister seen as " grovelling", or " toadying"?

Quite simply because he is a toady.
Attempts to be authoritarian at home, riding roughshod over conventions such as elections, protection of military veterans, making detrimental deals over territories, turning on those who have supported him, whilst grovelling to those who have power.

MayBee70

Aren’t we doing trade deals with India and their human rights record isn’t that good ( and they still have the caste system I believe?).

There is a caste system unofficially, in practice marriages are within each caste, however the lowest caste, the untouchables have many more opportunities than in the past. Its poverty in general that blights India.

However it is the largest democracy by far and is developing fast with high growth rates. Their tech industry is massive but like China they have been very protectionist. We visited India last spring, not just the tourist areas, we didnt see another westerner for 8 days. Compared to 10 yrs ago there are many changes much less poverty, infinitely less pollution, traffic chaos remains.

There's an old saying "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer".
Having some dealings with China could be an advantage. Shutting them out means we have no way to communicate.
China could be dangerous as like other super powers it wants take over as much of the world as it can.
No different to the US in that respect.

Perhaps keeping them closer means we can keep an eye on them.

Chocolatelovinggran

Why are negotiations with other countries by our Prime Minister seen as " grovelling", or " toadying"?
Are the activities of other leaders being villified, or just ours?

Yes, I wonder about that, too, Chocolatelovinggran.
I think any having opportunity to have a dig at the current Prime Minister is what many love to do. He’s not my favourite person, in some respects, but I do think things like this and behind the scenes discussions are something he seems quite skilled at. Time will tell, I suppose.

Nottingham Uni is twinned with one in China.

Our universities make (made? now that our visa system has been hardened up)) a great deal of money from Chinese students. Durham Uni. Business School was almost entirely populated with Chinese students. Foreign students are charged far more for tuition than UK students...

I assume that the Chinese government funds them.

There was a period of about 10 years, when if you were covered by a large employer, you were relatively ok.
My experience and opinion.

My ex husband went there with his job and he loved it, too.

My daughter spent several months in China prior to going to uni. She worked as a volunteer at a huge school teaching English. She loved China and the Chinese people she met, who made her very welcome. I've been to Hong Kong since it was returned to China but not to the mainland but I'd definitely visit if I could. tbh I'd rather go to China ATM than to the US.

Aren’t we doing trade deals with India and their human rights record isn’t that good ( and they still have the caste system I believe?).

All part of their plan.

It's all very well being critical of China, but I've noted that it is very difficult to buy a great many items which are not made in China, either directly imported from China or assembled elsewhere using Chinese components.

China rules the world through the world's shopping baskets...

Was it not China who left its babies for dead in the roadside? when they brought in a one child per household rule! 😩

It doesn’t seem to be a reciprocal agreement (yet, anyway). Chinese travellers still need a visa to come to the UK.

My son has lived there since 2010, now married with a child.

Oreo

AGAA4

Other countries are turning to China and away from the US. Of course Trump won't like it but he has brought this about with his treatment of those countries.
Not sure if it's a good or a bad thing for the UK but time will tell.

It’s a bad thing.
China is slowly but surely buying up all sorts of things in countries all round the world including the UK. On top of that they are making countries totally reliant on them for the future.
If not very careful many countries will end up as vassal states to them.
Trump won’t be President forever and the US is a democracy and trusted ally.

You've got it absolutely spot on. Starmer ia a toady, what has he sold off to appease the Chinese, who have tentacles in every country, the new colonialists, and UK is on its list. We need to stay with allies we can trust, as you say Trump will not be in forever.

TwiceAsNice

Have never wanted to go and don’t think I’ll ever change my mind. I’m a therapist and had a Chinese client once what she told me about her country was horrendous . She was frightened when she had to go back

I know a story or two too.
I wont be buying a ticket.

silverlining48

My dd is still there, travelling alone, and has met nothing but kindness on her travels. ( thank goodness).
The photos and videos she has sent are full of colour, smiling faces, strange looking food, and lots of random dancing on the street by grans and grands.

I think it could be said of just about every country that tourists and those who go to work there short term or long term will be met by kindness and often generosity at times.
It’s not the people who you will meet in China that are the problem but the regime in charge.Much like in Iran for example.

AGAA4

Good point MayBee70. How much do we trust the US?

Yes, trusted ally.
People are allowing their hatred of Donald Trump to colour their every utterance on any given subject.
You think China would be an ally?

David, I'm not sure that we are all privy to every aspect of negotiations between leaders.
Tours of China are already permitted, of course, and I have two sets of friends who have taken these .
Trade links with China gave long existed in the British fashion industry. My daughter went on several trips to China for work.
None of them enjoyed the food!

So the Chinese borders are open to all Brits, and pigs will fly over Peking, maybe, just maybe, state supervised tours will be permitted.

A 5% reduction in tax on Whiskey, Im sure Chinese drinkers will be thrilled.

What a waste of a visit if thats all thats been achieved.

petra

I’d just like mention that the eu is the next largest trading partner with China after the US.

😹😹😹

I’d just like mention that the eu is the next largest trading partner with China after the US.

I was there about 25 years ago on a small group tour. I really enjoyed my trip.

No thanks. I don’t fancy eating nanny goats plonkers.

Good point MayBee70. How much do we trust the US?