Government ‘considers’ removing Andrew from line of succession.

nanna8

I suppose whilst the media go after him it deflects views from the Americans who were heavily involved. Though why the British press don’t see this, who knows ?

Americans had nothing to do with Andrew's ten year public appointment as a British trade envoy around the world at taxpayer expense. It's alleged business/financial/ insider trading/ misbehaviour in that role, which triggered the debate in this thread's title.

There are rules and required standards of ethics and integrity in UK public appointments, and consequences for their dereliction.

This is NOT just about sexual procurement (horrible though that is).

i

Just what has Andrew been found guilty of?
When was the trial?
What was the verdict?
How long did it take to find an impartial jury?

The Australians have apparently made a decision.

I do think it's fair enough for staff who "knew" - even if it was years back - to have to deal with what they did in the course of doing those jobs.

I can understand if they were normal people that had innocently gone in for working for one of these awful characters and then realised they were in the middle of inadvertently assisting that sort of person - but they could have done the moral thing and lined themselves up to leave their positions as best possible (ie ideally leaving immediately if their finances weren't going to be smashed by it). Obviously easier to have noticed in advance that a job was morally dicey at some level and never ask for it or take it in the first place (yep....I know even that costs personally - been there/done that/stayed unemployed for longer as a result).

So I don't excuse them - "If you contribute to it = you're part of the problem" has always been my take on doing immoral jobs.

Re Ghislaine herself and the jury is still out on whether it is actually her in prison - there are photos of her going the rounds and being compared to the woman in prison stating they are two different people and (looking at those photos) = I wouldnt care to swear one way or the other on that point. It may be her....it may not be.....the nose certainly looks very different.....so I wouldnt like to say....

nanna8

I have never believed in her suicide. Just too convenient wasn’t it ? Same applies to that dreadful Epstein man - he knew too much. Who, though ? CIA, MI5 or someone in the American government? We will never know , or want to know, come to that.

I must say I've got my doubts about the suicide.
If she did commit suicide, which is a great tragedy for all her family and particularly her children who lost their mum, there were many factors and many people who contributed to it . I also have understood that she married into domestic violence at one point . I think that Andrew was a long way from being her prime tormentor.
I'm astonished that Ghislaine Maxwell is still alive. If Trump hadn't fished her out of the hard-line prison and dropped her into a nicer one she possibly wouldn't be. What will the US do with her?
On the succession , I think we should wait until he is convicted of something before everyone piles on any further.
He sure has been chosen as the Fall Guy , hasn't he? He's a wonderful lightning conductor away from a bunch of American and International wealthy men who were mixed up in this, none of whom have been brought to account.
Full disclosure I can't stand the man but we'll be blaming him for the war in Ukraine next.
Also his staff and security details and staff who worked at the palaces who were always probably just doing as they were told to keep their jobs are now being dragged into this stuff that happened many years ago.
That shouldn't happen IMO.

Phillip paid one million £ a year after he died !

Charles - it is said- also tipped up the odd 5 million.

MT62

If he’s innocent, why strip him of any titles? Also if he’s innocent why pay VG 12 million?
If I had been PA, & innocent, I would have stuck to my guns & refused to pay any money.

She was paid to drop a civil court action against him in USA, under the Child Protection Act

Otherwise VG would have had her day in court with the cross examination Of VG and her testimony under oath, plastered across the world .

I think a lot of very rich men around the world would have paid to stop that happening; and maybe they did?

As for who paid 12 million, "The queen" might just be the safest person to name and blame.

LemonJam

The process seen to be done and in due course achieved, in my view, would assist the monarchy separate from AMW as an individual- ie a good thing not a disastrous thing.

Frankly it is impossible to separate AMW from the RF.

His behaviour, and concealment by the RF simply would not have happened if he was not part of the RF. His access to and subsequent apparent working against the national interest could never have happened.

It needs to happen whatever the outcome of what is happening at present.

The process seen to be done and in due course achieved, in my view, would assist the monarchy separate from AMW as an individual- ie a good thing not a disastrous thing.

The last time the line the Succession to the Crown Act was changed by and act of Parliament was 2013 to restore individuals previously excluded because they married a catholic- plus ended male primogenitor under which a younger son can displace an elder daughter in the line of succession. Modernisation long needed.

In all the circumstances, in the public interest, as AMW has already been stripped of all royal titles already and because there is provision to do so, it seems logical to displace him as an individual in the line of succession. The process will take some time though, plus would need to be supported by the 14 Commonwealth countries, as other posters have already said.

Whitewavemark2

I do think and hope that those responsible are mindful for his mental health.

The pressure must be absolutely tremendous, and he is experiencing everything under full public gaze.

I can't feel any sympathy for him. Yes, we should be mindful of people's mental health but, if allegations were true, he has never been mindful of anyone else's feelings throughout his life.

If I am to feel mindful about the mental health of anyone, it would be William and Catherine who have been through a lot recently and, whenever they go out on public duties, are bombarded with questions about Uncle Andrew.

Yes, which is why this whole thing is such a disaster for the monarchy.

Whitewavemark2

Just imagine that some very peculiar disaster took out the first 7 in line.

Can you honestly imagine that anyone would accept Windsor as the King.

Of course not!

So just do it without fuss or bother. Who on earth cares?

The whole country SHOULD care, (Monarchists and Republicans), because "line of descent " is the critical be-all and end-all of Monarchy .

If demand by the populace and Parliament disrupts the line of descent , it would be a massive shift in British history.

I have never believed in her suicide. Just too convenient wasn’t it ? Same applies to that dreadful Epstein man - he knew too much. Who, though ? CIA, MI5 or someone in the American government? We will never know , or want to know, come to that.

butterandjam

Whitewavemark2

I do think and hope that those responsible are mindful for his mental health.

The pressure must be absolutely tremendous, and he is experiencing everything under full public gaze.

Save your MH sympathy for Guiffre, who committed suicide

...or did she?

I read her book and one of the things she said latterly was "If anyone says I've committed suicide - don't believe them...because I won't be doing that" or words to that affect.

So I'm not inclined to believe it was suicide - even though she went on to marry a wife-batterer. Add in the fact that she had children - and therefore parental responsibilities to fulfil (not that that stops some people - but it would stop others).

Amatxi

At 8th in line it's all a bit irrelevant.
I do feel he is a bit of an r.......h...e but what happened to innocent till proven guilty? How come certain Americans, mentioned more thsn 30k times in files are not arrested? Clearly UK and US ideas of morality snd justice are differrnt

No Americans spent 10 years as UK's Special Representative for International Trade and Investment. Andrew did, his alleged misconduct in State-related business/finance during that period, is what triggered the arrest, searches, and ongoing criminal investigation.

Whitewavemark2

I do think and hope that those responsible are mindful for his mental health.

The pressure must be absolutely tremendous, and he is experiencing everything under full public gaze.

Save your MH sympathy for Guiffre, who committed suicide

Witzend

Amatxi

At 8th in line it's all a bit irrelevant.
I do feel he is a bit of an r.......h...e but what happened to innocent till proven guilty? How come certain Americans, mentioned more thsn 30k times in files are not arrested? Clearly UK and US ideas of morality snd justice are differrnt

Yes, the question I keep asking myself is, how come no famous/wealthy/eminent Americans are yet named, or being required to give evidence? The only person in prison, AFAIK, (of course not counting JE who died there) is Ghislaine.

The fact is, the Yanks absolutely ‘love to hate’ a Bad Brit (why else are Brits often cast as the baddies in films?) and of course a Royal Brit to heap censure on is even better.

Of course Andrew has been as dodgy as hell, I’m certainly not making excuses, but where are the famous Yanks - or indeed any others - who also enjoyed Jeffrey Epstein’s ‘favours’ in the form of young female flesh?

Andrew is now under UK police ( criminal) investigation for "misconduct in public office". Alleged financial misconduct/ insider dealing during the 10 years he was appointed as the UK's Special Representative for International Trade and Investment. This is what triggered the " remove him from line of succession" being discussed in UK and this thread

There is no connection between the above, and what America 's legal and criminal system does in relation to US citizens regarding the Epstein sex scandal.

Witzend

OldFrill

eazybee

I thought it rather petty when the Police called to check his gun licences and I believe, confiscated his guns.

Perhaps they were taking preventive measures.

The guns weren't confiscated, restrictions were put on the use of them.

I can’t help wondering what restrictions?

‘You can keep them as long as you’re not going to top yourself.’

‘As if I would, Officer!’

‘OK, then.’

Perhaps fratricide was more of a concern.

It would save us all a lot of trouble!!!

Whitewavemark2

I do think and hope that those responsible are mindful for his mental health.

The pressure must be absolutely tremendous, and he is experiencing everything under full public gaze.

For goodness - being found out is generally not good for anyone’s mental health. Lemonjam very helpfully detailed all the ways DPs are protected - for once in his useless life he’s probably been treated at the standard applied to us lesser mortals if we were in that situation. Being arrested/ charged/ under investigation can and often must be very stressful - if you’re well known either nationally or in your local community it could be even harder. But there’s no answer to this is there ? It just goes with the territory . It’s up to his sainted family to have another whip round to give him some counselling or get him prescribed dome anti- depressants. Cheaper than paying off a woman who took her own life .

OldFrill

eazybee

I thought it rather petty when the Police called to check his gun licences and I believe, confiscated his guns.

Perhaps they were taking preventive measures.

The guns weren't confiscated, restrictions were put on the use of them.

I can’t help wondering what restrictions?

‘You can keep them as long as you’re not going to top yourself.’

‘As if I would, Officer!’

‘OK, then.’

OldFrill

eazybee

I thought it rather petty when the Police called to check his gun licences and I believe, confiscated his guns.

Perhaps they were taking preventive measures.

The guns weren't confiscated, restrictions were put on the use of them.

The police are following the book - they absolutely must.