Now we know for sure we should not be in the Iran war.

By chance, I heard this BBC podcast which is looking at the Iraq war. It is a very shocking expose of American plans to invade Iraq well before 9/11 and sounds all too familiar to the present day. Well presented with interviews with key players and the evidence. I don't know how Americans can live with themselves.
www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/m001k0ch

"Essential listening..." Why the US and UK went to war in Iraq and its legacy. The BBC's Security correspondent Gordon Corera speaks to those at the heart of the decision-making."

The post goes on to explain that Iran has a new weapon that seems to be getting through the Dome defence. It seems to be able to split into 80 different bombs.
Not great for innocent Israelis.

Maremia Unbelievable! Stop bombing us while we are destroying you. This from the convicted criminal Ben-Gvir.

Oreo 14.33 what's obvious?

Now this could just be 'chatter',

'Israel's National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir has made a direct appeal to the United Nations and the International Community, urging immediate action to stop Iran's aggressive missile attacks raining down on Israeli territory.'

Not sure what this is about, if everything is going 'well'.

Maremia

Unfortunately they seem to have knocked out the Leaders who were willing to use diplomacy. Good plan...not.

They were never going to agree to anything, just string out talks for as long as possible then walk away from the table, just like their friend Putin does.

It’s obvious LemonJam that’s all.

Unfortunately they seem to have knocked out the Leaders who were willing to use diplomacy. Good plan...not.

Good to know you are clear and sure what Trump's priority goals are Oreo even though Trump "says one thing one minute and another the next".

We, the US electorate and Leaders around the world will muddle through as best we can meanwhile. After all none of us can expect clarity and statesmanship from Trump- Churchill or Roosevelt he is not 😅

Luckygirl3

Well he would wouldn't he? He has to justify his past.

Yes.

He would say thst, wouldn't he!
Another warmongerer.

Trump says one thing one minute and another the next, that’s well known.
Israel and the US, and the West would be happy with a regime change naturally, to a moderate government but it could never be a guaranteed outcome.Whereas degrading their military and nuclear hopes could be.Likewise assassinating a lot of the top dogs.That’s obviously what they have gone for.

Cossy

Oreo

It’s just an old quote that’s being trotted out and isn’t at all apt.
It wouldn’t have been apt in WW2 and it isn’t now.Iran is an incredibly dangerous country to both, Israel, the whole region and the West.
They absolutely need to be curbed right now.

You feel the moves made to “curb them” by Trump and Netanyahu are the right ones?

There are many dangerous countries across the world, many awful regimes where citizens are not safe and secure, do you propose that Trump invades them all?

I think it’s naive, at best, to think Trump is helping the situation.

There certainly are many other countries who keep people in poverty or fear, but they aren’t bankrolling terror groups to do their bidding like Iran is.
If Iran didn’t provide weapons and provide money, hamas, hezbollah and all the very many other groups could only exist in a very small way.

Oreo 13.43 : "It’s enough to hit Iran hard and achieve the goals they are already getting, what comes after is up to the people in Iran. Regime change was never the main aim.Degrading their military capabilities was".

Maremia 13.45: "So, Trump was lying about the Regime change? Maybe his dementia getting him confused?"

Te war began in the midst of negotiations. with joint airstrikes by the US and Israel against miltatry and government sites and the Ayatollah and other Iranian officials killed. Trump and other US officials offer varying and shifting objectives for their attack to (all available on Wikipedia with evidence links for quotes) :
1) ward off an imminent Iranian threat-no evidence provided- rejected by Iran
2) Destroy Iran's missiles and military capabilities
3) prevent Iran from ever having a nuclear weapon
4) secure its natural resources
5) to achieve regime change

Oreo may be right and the priority was to degrade Iran's military capabilities but regime change was "never the main aim". Maybe Oreo has had sight of the US/Israel plan that sets that key objective and priority. Maybe Trump and other US officials had not read/had sight of that plan when they went on public record stating the above varying and shifting objectives and priorities. You could also be right Maremia - Trump is increasingly showing signs of memory loss!

What is clear that the strike happened on 28 February and the aftermath of the strike has been ongoing since. When asked when the operations would end, in the past 24 hours, Trump stated " I don't know, it depends. Wrapping it up in my mind, nobody else's." What comes next, according to Trump, at least in his mind, and he is mulling it over- alone.

The paint was thrown over a building that has houses a company that has some links to an Israeli arms firm. Arrests have been made.

Oreo

It’s just an old quote that’s being trotted out and isn’t at all apt.
It wouldn’t have been apt in WW2 and it isn’t now.Iran is an incredibly dangerous country to both, Israel, the whole region and the West.
They absolutely need to be curbed right now.

You feel the moves made to “curb them” by Trump and Netanyahu are the right ones?

There are many dangerous countries across the world, many awful regimes where citizens are not safe and secure, do you propose that Trump invades them all?

I think it’s naive, at best, to think Trump is helping the situation.

AGAA4

My son.has just texted me from.Manchester. An Israeli building has been covered in red paint. Police everywhere
My DDs next door neighbour has had JEW written across his driveway.
She is very upset and helped him clean it.
This has to be a backlash against this war.

That is dreadful, and in Manchester again.
There has to be something done to reassure the Jewish community there.
And of course it is a backlash, targeting innocent people with hate crimes, Trump and Netanyahu throw grenades with impunity then stand back and let everyone else deal with the blast.
It sickens me.

Maremia

So, Trump was lying about the Regime change?
Maybe his dementia getting him confused?

I think he was hopeful, but that’s all.

So, Trump was lying about the Regime change?
Maybe his dementia getting him confused?

Blair was the man who did not believe the inspectors who were sent in to find "weapons of mass destruction". to my knowledge they were never found . So why would you ever believe that man?

It’s enough to hit Iran hard and achieve the goals they are already getting, what comes after is up to the people in Iran.
Regime change was never the main aim.Degrading their military capabilities was.

It’s BN leading, not Trump btw.

Yes Maremia 12.56- exactly what is the plan? What are Trump's goals, the measures of success, the timescales and how are risks being minimised and mitigated? If anyone knows- pray do tell!

Potential goals:
1)Trump can instigate military action to destroy paramilitary forces and command structures to reduce Iran's military power.
2)US/Israel can attempt to destroy missile facilities and damage nuclear sites. Trump did this June 2025 and boasted he "obliterated" nuclear sites. So Iran has them up and running again? Rinse/repeat/rinse/repeat.
3) US/Israel can seek to force regime change/collapse- with no guarantee/clarity what will follow.
4) US/Israel can seek to reduce Iran's regional influence

Risks:
1) Potential chaos- instead of a new stable Iran government, the collapse could result in power vacuum, civil war and/or humanitarian and refugee crisis. Ayaltollah was assassinated- son takes the helm yet untested. Regime may become harsher and lead to greater upheaval.
2) Retaliation- Iran has vowed to retaliate potentially causing damage to US war ships, laying mines in the gulf and endangering regional allies- could involve US military casualties and domestic push back against war
3) High costs- conflict threatens/impacts on global energy security, global energy costs and likely impact on oil prices- has already been happening. Trump recently on speed dial to media outlets trying to reassure them the war in nearly over.

Trump's messages shape shift- he accuses Starmer 2 days ago of "seeking to Jon the war after we've already won". Yesterday he tells reporters " I have a plan for everything. You'll be very happy...the war is complete, pretty much ...we're far ahead of schedule" Asked whteher the operation would end soon therefore: ' I don't know, it depends. Wrapping it up in my mind, nobody else's. Just days ago Trump said he would not stop the war until Iran's "unconditional surrender."

Smileless your quote "Who is the biggest fool? The fool that leads or the fool that follows" resonates in current circumstances. Trump is the fool leading, persuaded, prodded, aided and abetted by Netanyahu, with no stated clearly thought out plan. Anyone who blindly follows, at Trump's bidding, without consideration, without question, without sight of a clearly thought out plan ( just as Starmer has stated) in my view would also be foolish.

fancythat

I presume a lot of posters on this thread originally voted for TB. I did.

I am curious to know at what point you went away from him.

I was never a fan of ‘New’ Labour, and certainly not a Blair fan from the beginning. However, I did vote for them initially.

I then voted Green (only time I’ve done so), and turned away from Blair completely when he followed America, like a lap dog, into an illegal war.

Was the plan to have billions of dollars of destruction, in Arab states?
To break the trust the Arab states had, that the USA would protect them, if they provided bases?
To topple the Regime?
To free the Iranian women?
To cripple the flow of oil?
Yes, that part is working well for Russia. I give you that.
For Netanyahu, now under threat of arrest in the five Nordic nations?

Which plan is working well? Trump had a plan?