Reform Deputy Leader says all British tax payers should do their best to find ways to pay the minimum amount of tax possible

Allira

^I would remind you, of course, that taxation doesn't fund spending^

So offering more to Rachel won't make much difference then?
Phew! I can relax.

Nope. If we didn't tax there would be rampant inflation.

But Rachel doesn't need your pennies before she can spend anything.

I lose sleep at night thinking about all these poor rich people having to find ways of not paying their taxes.

Infact if I could afford it I would go for counselling. I don't know how they can bear it...

Very patriotic - much better to wave a flag.

I keep getting things pop up on utube advising me to move my business to Dubai so I don’t have to pay much tax. I assume that Tice and his girlfriend are now permanently back in London a place they deemed to be far too dangerous to live in because of Sadiq Khan.

Our taxes are supposed to go on services for the citizens of Britain....education, NHS, etc. This particular government puts other countries before us. If I were working and paying taxes, I would object strongly to this, so although it seems irresponsible, I agree with the principle.

I object to where a lot of tax goes to, it's about time this country put itself first especially,m helping our young. My generation had the best of things. Rachel Reeves is useless,

I thought Reform was supposed to be patriotic?
In what way is this patriotic?

I suppose the idea is that people could give the money they save to Reform and they'll spend it just how it should be spent. Brilliant!

Successive governments have only fiddled round the edges regarding tax loopholes.

Oreo

You won’t get any takers.
Everyone does what they can legally to avoid paying too much tax.
There’s legal tax avoidance and then there’s illegal tax evasion.
Wealthy people and firms have accountants to find the legal ways to do it.

We don’t. Grateful that we’re well off and perfectly content to pay as required.

Basgetti

Oreo

You won’t get any takers.
Everyone does what they can legally to avoid paying too much tax.
There’s legal tax avoidance and then there’s illegal tax evasion.
Wealthy people and firms have accountants to find the legal ways to do it.

We don’t. Grateful that we’re well off and perfectly content to pay as required.

So no ISAs?
If you have a firm you pay more than you need to?

Well done. I needn't chuck in my spare loose change now 😀

We don’t have a firm, retired. Husband paid well over the years but we never had any savings vehicles. Didn’t have enough spare while the kids were at school/university 😁 just never had a problem with paying our share.

There is an organisation that does believe those with a great deal of wealth should contribute to society and pay more tax.

Over 80 members belong to Patriotic Millionaires UK.

Here’s The Time’s article which exposed what tax expert Dan Neidle describes as “very aggressive tax planning”.

archive.is/20260314211416/https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/reform-deputy-leader-richard-tice-tax-5r93t6dg8#selection-1647.1-1647.309

Note:

Quidnet did not pass the technical tests for Reit status at the time and never did.

This is because Reit companies must be “non-close”, meaning they are not controlled by one party or a group of connected parties. In contrast, Tice’s firm was owned by him personally via a group of on and offshore entities, making it “close”.However, Quidnet was taxed as though it did pass the test because of a legal quirk.

The relevant tax law creates a three-year “grace period” for newly listed firms to find investors, with HMRC assuming they have every intention of doing so. It does not require proof.

Tice insisted he had made every effort to diversify Quidnet’s structure in order to meet the definition of being a “non-close” company, but was unable to do so. He said: “We instructed advisers to seek extra investors and made presentations etc. [We] made good progress, just did not get quite close enough. Market moved against property companies and Covid made much harder.

But … Asked to provide the materials provided to potential investors, Tice said: “The presentations were confidential so was not public information.”

He would, wouldn’t he? MRDA.

HMRC need to be looking very closely at this.

MaizieD

It's the tax evaders and avoiders who contribute to the deficit that everyone gets so worried about...

And all the 'legal' loopholes have been engineered over the years to benefit the wealthy.

I would remind you, of course, that taxation doesn't fund spending, spending happens before taxation, but I won't bore you with it this time...

So I have to ask, if it’s not our taxes that the govt use for the majority of its spending, then what is it? Or are you saying it’s not tax first, spending second?

That is govt spends money then collects taxes afterwards to replenish?

I’m so sorry if I’m being really dim?

flump

There is an organisation that does believe those with a great deal of wealth should contribute to society and pay more tax.

Over 80 members belong to Patriotic Millionaires UK.

👏👏👏

MaizieD "I would remind you, of course, that taxation doesn't fund spending, spending happens before taxation, but I won't bore you with it this time..."

Cossy 15.22 "So I have to ask, if it’s not our taxes that the govt use for the majority of its spending, then what is it? Or are you saying it’s not tax first, spending second? That is govt spends money then collects taxes afterwards to replenish?"

HMRC collects tax revenue via income tax, National Insurance and VAT on behalf of the government. There must necessarily be a process in place for HMRC to transfer this tax revenue to the government after this revenue is collected.

The government website money helper.org.uk states " Income tax is collected on behalf of the government. It's used to help provide funding for public services. For example, the NHS, education and welfare system, as well as investment in public projects such as roads, rail and housing".

MaizieD highlighted public spending happens BEFORE taxation so she appears to be highlighting the timing issue. Thus she may be referring to Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) and how a sovereign currency operates. That is technically a government can "create money" whereas a household has to "earn money" before it can spend. Thus tax is not collected first and then spent, rather the government spends money in the economy and tax comes LATER to "destroy" that money in order to manage inflation.

Even in that context the reality is that taxes are essential for public spending. Both the ONS and HMRC report that tax revenue makes up over 90% of the government's total income which is explicitly used for public services. e.g. in 2024/2015 the UK received around £1,139 billion in tax revenue and other income to cover its £1,292 billion expenditure.

Basgetti

Oreo

You won’t get any takers.
Everyone does what they can legally to avoid paying too much tax.
There’s legal tax avoidance and then there’s illegal tax evasion.
Wealthy people and firms have accountants to find the legal ways to do it.

We don’t. Grateful that we’re well off and perfectly content to pay as required.

There’s well off and there’s wealthy.

Governments will and do clamp down on tax evasion but if they close down any legal avoidance ‘areas’ then there’s a risk that the very wealthy and firms will move their money and businesses outside the UK where terms are more favourable.
It’s a fine line to walk.

All those like Tice who use ( best scenario) aggressive tactics (at worst HMRC investigates and finds he abused the REIT rules) to pay the least amount possible, means there is less tax paid to HMRC for the government to then spend on public services. In Tice's case almost to the tune of almost £600,000 over a 35 month period.

Tice's claim that he was seeking to find new investors, whilst refusing to share those marketing presentations claiming they are 'confidential, is not transparent and somewhat suspicious. His aggressive, convoluted, "unusual' ways to avoid paying tax as the Times reports, is not what I expect or hope for from a senior politician. It's also, as others have said not very patriotic does not align with Reform's stated values and for me hypocritical.

I don’t know about REIT rules or any abusing of, but I think you’ll find many politicians of all stripes use tax avoidance strategies.It’s legal.

Oreo

I don’t know about REIT rules or any abusing of, but I think you’ll find many politicians of all stripes use tax avoidance strategies.It’s legal.

Many people use tax avoidance schemes. ISA are popular tax avoidance and can be funded, to a small extent, for children.

An ISA is not a tax avoidance scheme though.

‘An ISA (Individual Savings Account) is not tax avoidance. It is a legitimate, government-approved tax planning tool designed to encourage saving. While it reduces your tax liability by allowing tax-free interest, dividends, and capital gains, this is intentional government policy, not a, convoluted loophole.’
GOV.UK

Casdon

An ISA is not a tax avoidance scheme though.

‘An ISA (Individual Savings Account) is not tax avoidance. It is a legitimate, government-approved tax planning tool designed to encourage saving. While it reduces your tax liability by allowing tax-free interest, dividends, and capital gains, this is intentional government policy, not a, convoluted loophole.’
GOV.UK

If you say so. I consider ISA as legal avoidance.

Casdon

An ISA is not a tax avoidance scheme though.

‘An ISA (Individual Savings Account) is not tax avoidance. It is a legitimate, government-approved tax planning tool designed to encourage saving. While it reduces your tax liability by allowing tax-free interest, dividends, and capital gains, this is intentional government policy, not a, convoluted loophole.’
GOV.UK

BTW, I did not say tax evasion, you know that.