Do we want the US to financially support NATO?

Yes, the US only pays 15% of the running costs now, it would be quite feasible to continue without the USA from that perspective. I think there is some confusion about the US domestic defence capability being equated directly with NATO, the size of the military is a choice they make rather than a requirement.

Casdon
A point I’ve been trying to make several times.

DaisyAnneReturns

Casdon

I know what the origins of the Treaty were DaisyAnneReturns. However, I think it can be recreated in a way that minimises any potential triumphalism from Trump that he dismantled NATO. Keeping the name and aims without him is the most powerful thing the other NATO nations can do.

Good point. Do you think a little history could go with it?

I think we know how, when and why NATO was formed.

6You either have NATO or the USA leaves and you have something else^.

Yes. With the even worse scenario of the US joining Russia/helping them.
As seems to be happening even right now, with the lifting of Russian and Iraninan oil sanctions.

Do we want the US with NATO, or against it an other Countries as well.

Someone said somewhere that Trump is not the centre of the universe.

He pretty much is right now.

petra

Casdon
A point I’ve been trying to make several times.

Yes, me too. I posted the contributions yesterday.

Trump is not the centre of the universe except in his own deluded mind fancythat, I am surprised if you believe that he is. His ‘reign’ is coming to an end very soon I suspect, and we can’t let him make fools of us all in the meantime.

Only in his own mind fancythat.

fancythat

Someone said somewhere that Trump is not the centre of the universe.

He pretty much is right now.

I think it was Trump himself who said it. King of the World.

6You either have NATO or the USA leaves and you have something else.

Why would it be anything other than NATO? Canada is a founding member, so the North Atlantic element is still there unless the Canadians want to be cut adrift, which I doubt. As I pointed out on page one, other than concerns about the funding, there’s no reason to assume it wouldn’t work without the Americans. The framework would still be there. All it would need is the will.

But does it have the might?

To defeat Russia?
If Russia goes into other Countries in Eastern Europe for example?

I just cant see that it does.

And if the US goes any more rogue..?

I could start a thread on "ways in which the US could go rogue".

There are endless ways.
Trump is coming up with different things daily.

Give him two months.
What could he be doing then.

Casdon

Yes, the US only pays 15% of the running costs now, it would be quite feasible to continue without the USA from that perspective. I think there is some confusion about the US domestic defence capability being equated directly with NATO, the size of the military is a choice they make rather than a requirement.

👍

fancythat

Someone said somewhere that Trump is not the centre of the universe.

He pretty much is right now.

No, he’s the noisiest and possibly the most foolish man in the universe, in meaningful terms, he is not centre of the Universe.

Should he “disappear” from our world tomorrow. Our world would continue to turn!

I would just like to add, that while DH was serving in the Army, we were lucky enough to have two NATO postings and, along with other nations, made many good friends among the Americans and their families. They all believed in NATO and what it stood for and were proud to serve alongside other nations. No isolationism then. I hope that is still the case now. I would like to think that, despite having a total dickhead as their commander in chief, they are willing to stand by the ideal.

Trump is not the centre of the universe except in his own deluded mind fancythat, I am surprised if you believe that he is.

I dont mean God isn't! By the way. Just in case anyone thought I meant God wasn't!

Should he “disappear” from our world tomorrow. Our world would continue to turn!

I just think of all the huge damage he is doing right now[he may be helping out some women in Iran though].

It is right now I am thinking about.

Even if something happens to him in the coming days or weeks, whatever that might be, he is already working, right this second. And has been for the past 4 weeks.

fancythat

Someone said somewhere that Trump is not the centre of the universe.

He pretty much is right now.

If any one person is at the centre of the universe right now it’s not the orange buffoon but the Ayatollah. He holds all the cards.

fancythat

^Should he “disappear” from our world tomorrow. Our world would continue to turn!^

I just think of all the huge damage he is doing right now[he may be helping out some women in Iran though].

It is right now I am thinking about.

Even if something happens to him in the coming days or weeks, whatever that might be, he is already working, right this second. And has been for the past 4 weeks.

What women has he helped out in iran
If he’s done anything for the women in Iran he’s made their safety ten times worse 😡
A few videos are getting out of Iran. Some are claiming that tge Iranian people have turned against the orange one.
He promised them freedom. That promise was as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike.

petra

fancythat

Someone said somewhere that Trump is not the centre of the universe.

He pretty much is right now.

If any one person is at the centre of the universe right now it’s not the orange buffoon but the Ayatollah. He holds all the cards.

And yet, all we talk about every day , is Trump.

fancythat

petra

fancythat

Someone said somewhere that Trump is not the centre of the universe.

He pretty much is right now.

If any one person is at the centre of the universe right now it’s not the orange buffoon but the Ayatollah. He holds all the cards.

And yet, all we talk about every day , is Trump.

I think that the 'not the centre of the universe' comment was made in response to your strange belief that if the US were to leave NATO it would no longer exist.

Of course we are talking about him. His illegal war is causing immense damage and the after effects will be felt for a very long time, globally. By people utterly remote from it.

I dont think I said that NATO would no longer exist.

Though I have certainly said it would be a different NATO.
And much diminished.
And not at all sure it could withstand Russia.
Abd certainly not if the US changes sides in any way.

It is all there for someone to go back and have a look if they want to.

That is the beauty of social media, in my opinion.
[Unlike the spoken word].

fancythat

petra

fancythat

Someone said somewhere that Trump is not the centre of the universe.

He pretty much is right now.

If any one person is at the centre of the universe right now it’s not the orange buffoon but the Ayatollah. He holds all the cards.

And yet, all we talk about every day , is Trump.

I have to say that is not true. There are multiple conversations happening on Gransnet, and we certainly aren’t talking about Trump on all of them, or all the political threads either. I’m not clear why you started a thread like this if you think he is being discussed too much?

fancythat

I dont think I said that NATO would no longer exist.

Though I have certainly said it would be a different NATO.
And much diminished.
And not at all sure it could withstand Russia.
Abd certainly not if the US changes sides in any way.

You should try rereading your own posts.

10.53 this morning

6You either have NATO or the USA leaves and you have something else

'Something else' is not NATO. ergo, NATO would no longer exist.

Casdon

fancythat

petra

fancythat

Someone said somewhere that Trump is not the centre of the universe.

He pretty much is right now.

If any one person is at the centre of the universe right now it’s not the orange buffoon but the Ayatollah. He holds all the cards.

And yet, all we talk about every day , is Trump.

I have to say that is not true. There are multiple conversations happening on Gransnet, and we certainly aren’t talking about Trump on all of them, or all the political threads either. I’m not clear why you started a thread like this if you think he is being discussed too much?

I didnt say he is being talked about too much.