A reminder of how history repeats itself.

Grantanow 10.33.

I agree what constitutes a mistake is open to misinterpretation. History has the ability to teach and inform but only when there is motivation and willingness to do so. History does not tell us what to do- we take actions according to our beliefs and values.

Some may take into account lessons learned from history in order to avoid repeating historical mistakes. However others are less reflective, less risk averse and more impetuous. Some, in the fascism example, may hold the beliefs and values of previous fascists and chart their own new course. It is then up to others to consider where their values and beliefs lie and act accordingly, i.e. whether to allow fascism to rise and gain hold or not.

We fought against Fascism. History does not teach that we should not repeat that fight if or when Fascism rears its ugly head again. What constitutes a 'mistake' is open to interpretation.

Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose. I won't say anymore!

I grew up when half of Europe was communist and people in the East were more or less imprisoned in an oppresive system that offered them nothing and where trying to escape meant being shot. Also I recall these supposed workers paradises where a ruling class had everything and everyone else had a miserable existence with endless rationing and shortages. In Romania Caecescu built himself an enormous palace while his people were practically starving.
I certainly don't miss communism and have no time for people on the far left who drone on about how great Marxism is. I've seen Eastern Europe under communism, and how miserable and oppresive it was.

I have always seen national flags as symbols of conflict, power and domination and why I would never fly one.

Vexillologist Malcolm Farrow, from the Flag Institute has said that European nations started making widespread use of national flags in "the days of empire, when nations were going around the globe and planting their flags in other people's countries” that at end of World War One, streets were festooned with a variety of flags and "nobody really knew what their flag was”; that it was only after World War Two, that the cross of St George "crept back into mainstream use," through its use by right wing groups and then at sporting events.

While I applauded the Apollo space missions for the science and engineering achievement, why did the astronauts have to litter the moon with US flags?

The design of the Union Flag is about power and dominance. The cross of St George sits on top of the saltires of St Andrew and St Patrick. Wales isn’t represented at all because England already claimed ownership of the country.

I would urge people to read Tim Marshall’s book Worth Dying For: The Power and Politics of Flags”

In it he explains that red in a flag typically signifies blood … or Communism. One for those who like to label socialists “loony lefties” to contemplate. Maybe that’s how to stop them.

The St George cross is said to symbolise the blood of Christian martyrs, courage and sacrifice. But that exactly are these people on the far right who have appropriated the flag, being Christian, courageous and sacrificial about?

Alie2Oxon

I've just complained to the Oxford County Council about the number of Union flags and St George flags on lampposts on our main road.
They don't seem to be trying very hard to remove them, and have got put off by verbal threats... guess who?

How did Reform manage to take over the Union flag?
and why aren't Labour trying to reclaim it??

Oxfordshire County Council has taken action.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/apr/02/uk-flag-raising-group-leader-arrested-alarm-distress-raise-the-colours

Menopauselbitch

Alie2Oxon

I've just complained to the Oxford County Council about the number of Union flags and St George flags on lampposts on our main road.
They don't seem to be trying very hard to remove them, and have got put off by verbal threats... guess who?

How did Reform manage to take over the Union flag?
and why aren't Labour trying to reclaim it??

Why does seeing the flag of the country you live in offend you. Ireland, Australia, America all fly their flags with pride.

Because the BNP took it over and I can’t get away from that.

GrannyGravy13

Galaxy

Oh I take the trans activists seriously, just not the book burning, they are an incel group in my view and have had enormous impact on public policy. I view parties such as the green party who seem to want to undermone the supreme court ruling as misogynistic and homophobic.

After seeing the Green Party Leader and their newest MP dancing with two men dressed in what was basically Bondage Apparel on the stage at the march against the right protest on Saturday in London they will never ever get my X

They really are not the party for women and girls.

Surely that is for others to decide for themselves?

Alie2Oxon

I've just complained to the Oxford County Council about the number of Union flags and St George flags on lampposts on our main road.
They don't seem to be trying very hard to remove them, and have got put off by verbal threats... guess who?

How did Reform manage to take over the Union flag?
and why aren't Labour trying to reclaim it??

Why does seeing the flag of the country you live in offend you. Ireland, Australia, America all fly their flags with pride.

Sarnia

We learn very little from history. At the moment the History group I go to are learning about the Crusades and although they happened in the 13th century a lot of what they were fighting for is still going on today.

Perhaps Kier is listening. We never came out well from interfering in the Middle East.

We are no longer champions of Christianity, which took us across the world, so let us stop being a "world power" and mind our own business.

I wouldn't say that History is Bunk.
Re the famous saying of Henry Ford
But I think history is in some ways a contrived version of fiction.

Yes, of course some truly awful events did happen and should never be repeated.

But people have short memories and busy lives.As long as events do not affect them. In the main, they are not too bothered. You know the l'm aright Jack response.

Also many historical conflicts have been been going on for hundreds of years or more. Based around recurring Universal problems and themes.
They have very complex forces and reasons behind them. Who is right and who is wrong.

Galaxy

Oh I take the trans activists seriously, just not the book burning, they are an incel group in my view and have had enormous impact on public policy. I view parties such as the green party who seem to want to undermone the supreme court ruling as misogynistic and homophobic.

After seeing the Green Party Leader and their newest MP dancing with two men dressed in what was basically Bondage Apparel on the stage at the march against the right protest on Saturday in London they will never ever get my X

They really are not the party for women and girls.

Undermine even.

Oh I take the trans activists seriously, just not the book burning, they are an incel group in my view and have had enormous impact on public policy. I view parties such as the green party who seem to want to undermone the supreme court ruling as misogynistic and homophobic.

I really can’t imagine Green ‘ activists ‘ demanding people’s names and addresses and who would give that information anyway, it would be very intimidating. The Green Party is becoming much more popular as an alternative to the two main parties, so I would expect many more innuendos to come. Look what happened to Jeremy Corbin, so let’s keep in mind the possibility of ‘history repeating itself ‘.

I've just complained to the Oxford County Council about the number of Union flags and St George flags on lampposts on our main road.
They don't seem to be trying very hard to remove them, and have got put off by verbal threats... guess who?

How did Reform manage to take over the Union flag?
and why aren't Labour trying to reclaim it??

ViceVersa

misb

How about Green people leafleting 'do not buy goods from Isreal'.Then taking down the names and and addresses of those who refuse to comply.

Brown shirts leafleting around Krisstallnacht the origional,and exact same message.

Or trans activists urging people to deface and burn JK Rowling's books. Do they know who else used to love to burn books? Hmm...

I have looked at the 'Green activists' story and as far as I can see none of the versions I have read (including the Sky story) claim directly that the activists are from the Green party. One from the Telegraph insinuates that they are by saying that Brighton (which is where these activists were operating) is a 'Green' enclave.

Like Galaxy, I can't take the trans book burning seriously. They are a minority group which has little power over the direction of national policy.

Citing either of these as evidence of the UK sliding into fascism is a bit far fetched.

OTOH Looking at some government actions and Looking at the policies, pronouncements and actions of Reform and its right wing splinter groups may be instructive.

The leafleting and allegedly collecting addresses.
The book burning isn't the greens. It is a fairly regular threat from trans activists. I don't take that one too seriously, it is like watching toddlers have a tantrum.

Galaxy

The story around activists linked to the green party ( I can't remember their actual status) was reported quite widely, on Sky etc
I have a vague memory of a labour mp reporting it to the police and them not taking action. I know about it because it was some feminists who challenged the activists.

Which of the stories are you referring to?
The boycott or the book burning?

(I don’t watch TV news)

The story around activists linked to the green party ( I can't remember their actual status) was reported quite widely, on Sky etc
I have a vague memory of a labour mp reporting it to the police and them not taking action. I know about it because it was some feminists who challenged the activists.

Israel (the state) is now the aggressor…….unbelievable to most of us but sadly true
I,ve boycotted Israeli goods for decades in support of my Palestinian friends and colleague who were thrown off their land had family killed and /or imprisoned just for existing .
I march with Jews FOR Palestine …..not Israeli.s ..not zionists .
Good people who do remember the past and don’t want to see it happen again with Israeli s taking Hitlers atrocities as the way to behave …..it’s horrific and very sad

MaizieD

misb

How about Green people leafleting 'do not buy goods from Isreal'.Then taking down the names and and addresses of those who refuse to comply.

Brown shirts leafleting around Krisstallnacht the origional,and exact same message.

Perhaps you'd like to give us a source for that story about the Greens?

In any case, Israel now means a State.

Israel then meant a race.

So the message is not the same.

MaizieD

misb

How about Green people leafleting 'do not buy goods from Isreal'.Then taking down the names and and addresses of those who refuse to comply.

Brown shirts leafleting around Krisstallnacht the origional,and exact same message.

Perhaps you'd like to give us a source for that story about the Greens?

Me too. First I have heard about it. If true, what on earth is the Green Party morphing into?

misb

How about Green people leafleting 'do not buy goods from Isreal'.Then taking down the names and and addresses of those who refuse to comply.

Brown shirts leafleting around Krisstallnacht the origional,and exact same message.

Perhaps you'd like to give us a source for that story about the Greens?

misb

How about Green people leafleting 'do not buy goods from Isreal'.Then taking down the names and and addresses of those who refuse to comply.

Brown shirts leafleting around Krisstallnacht the origional,and exact same message.

Or trans activists urging people to deface and burn JK Rowling's books. Do they know who else used to love to burn books? Hmm...