Andy Burnham has plan to return to Westminster ‘within weeks’. Allies sayGreater Manchester mayor said to have identified seats where MPs would step aside to allow leadership bid.

Galaxy

Whenever people call those with different opinions 'stupid' I am going to challenge it, I don't really care how condescending it may appear.

You do exactly the same yourself though Galaxy, calling people misguided, when you have a go at the mythical Guardian readers? I’d rather hear what people actually think about the issue being discussed than about what they think about other people’s views.

Allira

Ilovecheese

Casdon

I think it’s another of those media initiated storms in a teacup. As far as I can see Burnham himself hasn’t said anything about this.

I agree with this as well. Burnham doesn't seem to have said anything himself but is getting a lot of flack for something he hasn't actually done.

It's called stirring the sh*t and everyone seem to be falling for it. Is it a case nothing to see here, folks?

There seems to be a lot of that going on at the moment.

Indeed.

Burnham was open when he declared he wanted to stand for MP selection in the Gorton and Denton bye election but he was blocked. His ambition has not changed. This should not be a surprise to anyone. What has changed since then is the weaker position Starmer faces, as played out over the past few weeks. Plus Starmer upset many Labour back benchers, unhappy to be whipped for last weeks vote. Poor May election results may anyway, regardless of Burnham, lead to questions about Starmer's position to continue as PM.

What the L party and the country does not need right now is a repeat of Conservative years of successive leadership votes, opposing factions and in-fighting. That decimated the Conservative Party at the last election and since. That Burnham would seek to get his ducks in a row should that happen should be no surprise to anyone.

His plan is different to an overt leadership vote however- seeking to avoid that. Labour MPs have all been milling around Westminster over the past few weeks, reading the dire negative headlines against Starmer, wondering what all this will mean for their seats, for the party, the country and wondering who might replace Starmer if May elections are dire and there is a vote of no confidence. It is reported, that Burnham currently has over 100 MPs in support of his plan, ie to avoid a leadership vote. That is 20 more than the 80 votes required to call for a leadership vote in the first place.

Will Starmer prioritise himself and his own ambitions, ruthlessly doing everything he can to hold on to the PM role, even if he risks loosing an overt leadership vote in the process which could come from Rayner or Streeting? Will Starmer continue to block, at every turn, Burnham’s efforts to become an MP? This may back fire on him and risk pushing Burnham’s supporters to a no confidence vote in itself. It is reported that there is a viable replacement lined up to take Burnham’s place as GM Mayor- which Starmer gave as his sole reason why he opposed Burnham standing for G and D bye election.

Burnham’s plan seems to involve Starmer becoming Foreign Secretary later this year- doing what he does best- would that satisfy Starmer? Would Starmer go along with such a plan to avoid factions, party infighting and a vote of confidence against him in the meantime?

There is no doubt that Burnham’s public approval ratings FAR outweigh those of Starmer, Raynor and Streeting. Hence why many back benchers may support Burnham’s plan on the basis, not only that it may be good for the country, may avoid a vote of no confidence against Starmer and also provide Labour with its best chance to win the next GE.

I look forward to reading the detail of Burnham’s plans after the May elections and see whether it gains any traction or fizzles out. The right wing press won’t like it of course- or other party leaders if it comes to fruition. They would far rather see a vote of confidence against Starmer, factions and in fighting. If that is avoided and Burnham is successful he would be a bigger foe for them to compete against at the next GE.

I agree. I think he would make a good PM and leader of the LP, and always have, but I don't think this is a good time to discuss replacing Starmer, which is, of course, why the media are doing just that.

There is no doubt that Burnham’s public approval ratings FAR outweigh those of Starmer, Raynor and Streeting.

It's easy to have high approval ratings with no responsibilities. We see this all the time, and so the rollercoaster goes on and in ....

Doodledog

I agree. I think he would make a good PM and leader of the LP, and always have, but I don't think this is a good time to discuss replacing Starmer, which is, of course, why the media are doing just that.

It could be Starmer faces a leadership vote anyway after May elections. Burnham's plan possibly may delay and/or subvert that.

Luckygirl3

*There is no doubt that Burnham’s public approval ratings FAR outweigh those of Starmer, Raynor and Streeting.*

It's easy to have high approval ratings with no responsibilities. We see this all the time, and so the rollercoaster goes on and in ....

Burnham does have significant responsibilities as GM Mayor. He has won three elections to remain as Mayor and has achieved some level of success and growth, in the same economic climate that faces the government.

Wyllow3

I'll just say as a LP insider I await events with interest! But I will say, getting the timing right is important. My local Labour MP would support such a bid, btw, she is to the left of Starmer, but not now.

I think I might but would like to know a lot more about it and him before I decided, and look at alternatives too.

By the way, the O/P is reporting on his laying out alternative policies, not a direct leadership bid.

Given that premise, its a bit "guessing forward" as to whether it precedes a leadership bid,

Or he is laying out alternative policies to make clear to people that we do not all think the same in the LP.

Its very opportunist timing, and I dislike that greatly:

Labour Party members are out campaigning on the doorstep to keep Reform out of key council seats: and it's hardly time to take on the important issue of deciding "which direction and who".

I’ll take a couple of leaflets for the cat lit tray 🤣

It's easy to have high approval ratings with no responsibilities. We see this all the time, and so the rollercoaster goes on and in

At least Burnham is well acquainted with parliament, MP and minister for 16 years, (which is more than Starmer) and has held down a significant political leadership post in Manchester. Apart from Milliband, who keeps counting himself out, I can't see that the other contenders have much of a record in that respect. (though I'd love Angela Rayner to get it )

I think it would take a miracle to keep Starmer in his current post.

P.S I meant to point out that Manchester Mayor is hardly 'no responsibilities'

Running a city (albeit large) is completely different from running a country… particularly in a time of wars on two fronts and with Trump as POTUS!

LizzieDrip

Running a city (albeit large) is completely different from running a country… particularly in a time of wars on two fronts and with Trump as POTUS!

True, but none of the other party leaders has run a city, have they? Never mind a country, wars or no wars.

MT62

Wyllow3

I'll just say as a LP insider I await events with interest! But I will say, getting the timing right is important. My local Labour MP would support such a bid, btw, she is to the left of Starmer, but not now.

I think I might but would like to know a lot more about it and him before I decided, and look at alternatives too.

By the way, the O/P is reporting on his laying out alternative policies, not a direct leadership bid.

Given that premise, its a bit "guessing forward" as to whether it precedes a leadership bid,

Or he is laying out alternative policies to make clear to people that we do not all think the same in the LP.

Its very opportunist timing, and I dislike that greatly:

Labour Party members are out campaigning on the doorstep to keep Reform out of key council seats: and it's hardly time to take on the important issue of deciding "which direction and who".

I’ll take a couple of leaflets for the cat lit tray 🤣

Got plenty from Reform already thanks, who sent it to me, gurning Farage on the front, not bothered to have someone put it through the door:

The other candidates have the actual candidates on the front and were put through the door

Allira

Galaxy

Yes only guardian readers are able to make their own decisions, probably only they should have the vote.

😂

I was told off on here once for confessing that I was a floating voter!

Sometimes I look at the Guardian, sometimes the Mail, anything that's not behind a paywall. It's voters like me that cause all the problems in this country.

However, I will only float a short way until I swim back to the safety of the fence!

You and me both Allira, a definite committed floating voter, in fact more of a wild swimmer of a floater. Some may describe us as pond life, particularly when our amoeba like entities float in the wrong direction towards the sewers of the Daily Mail instead of the clear, clear waters of The Guardian, but with an amoeba like brain, it's to be expected.

MaizieD

^It's easy to have high approval ratings with no responsibilities. We see this all the time, and so the rollercoaster goes on and in^

At least Burnham is well acquainted with parliament, MP and minister for 16 years, (which is more than Starmer) and has held down a significant political leadership post in Manchester. Apart from Milliband, who keeps counting himself out, I can't see that the other contenders have much of a record in that respect. (though I'd love Angela Rayner to get it )

I think it would take a miracle to keep Starmer in his current post.

Oh, not Raynor please, we'd have another trouser thread.

LizzieDrip

Running a city (albeit large) is completely different from running a country… particularly in a time of wars on two fronts and with Trump as POTUS!

A UK City/Metro Mayor leads a specific regional authority with devolved powers over local issues like transport, housing, and planning. It's quite significant.

Boris Johnson went from London Mayor to PM- so there is precedence.

The issue is that Burnham has been successful and has very high public approval ratings. Starmer does not enjoy that position and has far less political experience.

MaizieD

^It's easy to have high approval ratings with no responsibilities. We see this all the time, and so the rollercoaster goes on and in^

At least Burnham is well acquainted with parliament, MP and minister for 16 years, (which is more than Starmer) and has held down a significant political leadership post in Manchester. Apart from Milliband, who keeps counting himself out, I can't see that the other contenders have much of a record in that respect. (though I'd love Angela Rayner to get it )

I think it would take a miracle to keep Starmer in his current post.

I agree it will take a miracle to keep Starmer in post. The fascinating aspect of Burnham's plan is that it offers Starmer the opportunity to stay in Government and do what he does best, on the world stage, as Foreign Secretary and seeks to AVOID a leadership vote. how many other PMs have managed to stay in Government in such a way and avoid a leadership vote? The usually face and vote- and if they loose, step down or go back to back benches.

Other competitors usually put forward aggressive, competitive leadership bids, opposing incumbent PM with a vote of no confidence. Burnham seeks to do something different.

Yes our local Tory councillor is plastered all over our community.TBF they have worked hard to sort out some of the pot holes around our way.

MT62

Yes our local Tory councillor is plastered all over our community.TBF they have worked hard to sort out some of the pot holes around our way.

Willow3

I like Andy Burham a lot, I don’t like all the infighting or (potential) leadership challenges on both sides of the house.

I don’t feel the timing is great and all I will do is wait and see.

LemonJam

Luckygirl3

There is no doubt that Burnham’s public approval ratings FAR outweigh those of Starmer, Raynor and Streeting.

It's easy to have high approval ratings with no responsibilities. We see this all the time, and so the rollercoaster goes on and in ....

Burnham does have significant responsibilities as GM Mayor. He has won three elections to remain as Mayor and has achieved some level of success and growth, in the same economic climate that faces the government.

Thanks LemonJam, I’m a Gtr Manchester resident. Andy Burnham is liked and respected for the work he does for us
There’s also his huge contribution to Hillsborough

TerriBull

Allira

Galaxy

Yes only guardian readers are able to make their own decisions, probably only they should have the vote.

😂

I was told off on here once for confessing that I was a floating voter!

Sometimes I look at the Guardian, sometimes the Mail, anything that's not behind a paywall. It's voters like me that cause all the problems in this country.

However, I will only float a short way until I swim back to the safety of the fence!

You and me both Allira, a definite committed floating voter, in fact more of a wild swimmer of a floater. Some may describe us as pond life, particularly when our amoeba like entities float in the wrong direction towards the sewers of the Daily Mail instead of the clear, clear waters of The Guardian, but with an amoeba like brain, it's to be expected.

😂

Oh, not Raynor please, we'd have another trouser thread.

I think a trouser thread would be the very least of it

I think Starmer would make a very good foreign secretary. Seriously. I don’t know anything about Burnham but I do think Starmer is a lousy PM who doesn’t do the country justice. He is the reason people like Farage gain a foothold. And, no, I don’t read the UK papers except for The Times.

nanna8

I think Starmer would make a very good foreign secretary. Seriously. I don’t know anything about Burnham but I do think Starmer is a lousy PM who doesn’t do the country justice. He is the reason people like Farage gain a foothold. And, no, I don’t read the UK papers except for The Times.

No, The reason people like Farage gain a foothold is because he makes empty promises and quick solutions - and people believe him.