Should the Judge in the teenagers rape case be struck off ?

Thank you Ashcombe, I didn’t know that.

surfsup

Ashcombe

I fear that there’s a possibility that the judge may have been threatened, given the background of the three boys.

What is their background?

They are travellers.

surfsup

Ashcombe

I fear that there’s a possibility that the judge may have been threatened, given the background of the three boys.

What is their background?

I imagine threatening a judge would have seen the parents in court before they could say Jack Robinson! It's a serious offence and even if it was his word against theirs, as a judge his word must carry a lot of weight.

I apologise I for some reason hadn't taken in the full details of the case. I have just realised that it was two separate cases, they are in fact, already serial rapists.

I suspect those boys are now themselves mortified at what they did.

Doubt it. "The court was told one of the boys had ADHD and "long-standing anxiety" not sure how carrying out 2 separate rapes of young girls has to do with being anxious

"while the other also had an ADHD diagnosis and an IQ in the "bottom 1%". he was bright enough to carry out both rapes, film them and upload them to social media

"The 14-year-old was described as having "mild cognitive impairment". --so not sufficiently impaired that he was able to employ self preservation, by lying, to save his own skin.

Don't judges usually give a detailed explanation of why they have reached their verdict and the resulting sanction?

Well if they are mortified that would be a start but they pleaded not guilty to a sickening crime that there's no way they'd have been found not guilty for, so forcing those poor girls to relive what had happened.

I agree with rehabilitation but it should go hand in hand with punishment; it shouldn't take precedence.

It is hard to conclude that these boys might be mortified at what they have done.

Their crimes were so violent, used a knife, premeditated and filmed for posting on SM that it is impossible to think they did not know they were doing wrong.

They showed up prepared with a phone and a knife, having lured this girl via SM. They knew what they had planned.

I do understand about mitigation - I have a family member who has fallen foul of the law and has benefitted from mitigating please - but they committed nothing quite as bad ot r premeditated as this.

I have heard that new guidelines particularly for underage perpetrators has to be much broader. This does need to be taken into account and each case will have different and multi-layered differences. I think judges are under pressure to give non custodial sentences where appropriate. It may be likely that these boys are genuinely remorseful at what they did. The problem is none of us or the poor girls know the mitigating reasons for the judges decision. However it doesn't bode well for girls and women, to feel so unheard and dismissed after very serious and degrading, life-changing sexual rape. Their fear would have been immense. I suspect those boys are now themselves mortified at what they did. So possibly the judge may have chosen the lesser punishment as the most appropriate for them. However this lesser punishment may not be the best message to send to other boys of their age.

Ashcombe

I fear that there’s a possibility that the judge may have been threatened, given the background of the three boys.

Yes. That crossed my mind too.

Thanks Mollygo- I think the UK needs to look at where it works better and look at the reasons- what you post about Spain seems to have some merit.

Take the best form the best- it has to be BOTH- punishment/custodial for serious offences and behavioural change. If not they are at high risk of becoming repeat offenders and more young women and girls will suffer in the the future.

^ What we do need though in the UK is better Youth Offending Institutions that deliver the custodial/ punishment aspect for serious offenders, but also education and rehabilitation. YOI in the UK compares badly with other countries.^

I agree LemonJam

But does it work e.g.

Youth Mitigation: In Sweden, youth is considered a distinct mitigating factor in sentencing, and statutory minimum sentences for those under 21 are often disregarded in favor of day-fines or lighter sanctions.

In Sweden:?Between 2015 and 2023, recorded offences linked to children under 15 more than doubled.

I like the suggestion in Spain
Regional Integration: Sentences are often carried out in the young offender's home region to preserve family ties, which aids in behavioral transformation.
Meaning the parents are also involved in the rehabilitation.
Parents even those in the poor family backgrounds might be more aware if people knew the named children involved.

I understand the case is going to appeal so the judgement will be looked at again- hopefully soon.

The non custodial aspect of this has rightly caused outrage and huge, unwarranted distress for the young victims and their families. Gisele Pelicot has also publicly stated she is deeply shocked by the decision not to jail these boys. She says the young woman, 15 at the time of the rape who spoke on LK was brave- "I really salute her strength and the decision she made..."

What we do need though in the UK is better Youth Offending Institutions that deliver the custodial/ punishment aspect for serious offenders, but also education and rehabilitation. YOI in the UK compares badly with other countries.

Cardamom Then he (Jusge) needs his head and his judgement examining!

Lots and lots of boys are brought up in violent, chaotic, dysfunctional households, they don’t plan, then carry out, video and share, a disgusting attack on innocent girls!

I would hate to see the excuse of underprivileged background added to the list of excuses like age or mental illness put forward to decide punishment.
They knew what they were doing. They had the equipment, both bodily to effect the rape and electronic to record and post the crime.

There’s plenty of videos or stories of these awful crimes that Mr Judge could read, if people feel he needs further education.

He saw the videos of the rapes. He had to watch them as part of the evidence submitted by the prosecution. He watched the boys laughing and urging each other on whilst calling the victims disgusting names. And he STILL thought that, despite finding them guilty of 10 rape convictions between them, that they are essentially good lads who just got led astray by social media and, to underline his support for them he complimented them on their behaviour whilst awaiting trial. No wonder male on female violence is on the increase.

I utterly agree Rosie

There’s plenty of videos or stories of these awful crimes that Mr Judge could read, if people feel he needs further education.

I understand that simply locking them away may not be the best of action for them, the perpetrators, but surely the safety and peace of mind for their victims and other girls should be paramount in this case?

Ah, great minds think alike Cossy😉

I'd like to see Judge Nicholas Rowland sent to a rape crisis centre to see, first hand, the trauma and damage done to women by males. I think he should work there, unpaid, for no less than a year so that he can witness that trauma unfolding and then go back to retrain as a circuit judge dealing only with male criminals.
Sorry to be so negative but I think this would be a dreadful idea. Rape crisis centres should be staffed exclusively with females, no traumatised woman or girl should have to have a male witness her therapy for the trauma she's already suffered. I appreciate your motive behind suggesting it, but in my opinion the potential grief to rape victims outweighs any 'realisation' that might dawn on a judge such as this.

LizzieDrip

The Attorney General has ordered the case to be referred to the Court of Appeal on the grounds that the sentences were too lenient.

We’ll see what comes of this.

I was about to say this.

It needs investigating. It is being investigated, and part of that should include not just this sentence but his track record.

winterwhite

I think it a pity if custody is regarded as the ultimate sentence and anything else means being let off lightly. Penalties that can be worked through in the community can be just as effective as both punishment and deterrent against reoffending, especially for young offenders. I wouldn’t think that a community sentence automatically implies that rape isn’t regarded as a serious crime.

It’s distressing that the girls don’t feel that justice has been done. Of course that’s important, very, and justifies appeal and a review in this case but I hope doesn’t set an automatic precedent.

But, these young men are free to repeat the crime at any time while they are ‘working through’ their penalties.
As a grandmother of four young girls, I personally would like to see these criminals off the streets and ‘working through’ their crimes in private.

The Attorney General has ordered the case to be referred to the Court of Appeal on the grounds that the sentences were too lenient.

We’ll see what comes of this.

Ashcombe

I fear that there’s a possibility that the judge may have been threatened, given the background of the three boys.

What is their background?