Henry Nowak…….an absolute tragedy.

Cossy

I agree, no dangerous offensive weapons should be carried in public EVER, by anyone, for any reason.

I agree. And I know Sikhs who definitely don’t carry this knife all the time. No religion should insist upon the carrying of dangerous weapons in everyday life.

Elon Musk has no shame.

B****y Musk. He needs to butt out ...

Jaxjacky

I agree with you Luckygirl officers making split second decisions in the dark, they got it wrong and have admitted that.
There are demonstrations outside Southampton police station let by Southampton Patriots who are permanently outside an asylum seekers hotel in the city.
Elon Musk has offered funding to bring an unlawful death lawsuit.

Absolutely Jaxjacky. How could they possibly know in the moment the murderer was the murderer as he claimed the victim was the murder? Their judgement call and decision to handcuff who they thought was the perpetrator will no doubt be covered in the investigation.

Police have public protection in mind when they arrest someone and handcuffs are a usual action to protect the public from aggressors. They wrongly believed the murderer in the first instance and have apologised for that.

Elon Musk should be ashamed of himself stirring the pot- this is not an asylum seeker issue and there is no current evidence to support an unlawful death lawsuit. There is evidence a murder took place and the murderer has already been tried in a court of law and found guilty.

ronib

Cossy The PM via the Home Secretary needs to wake up. Of course it’s the responsibility of the government to act.
Who else is responsible when police actions are simply wrong.
And why has the murderer’s brother not been charged for his lies?

Ronib- you seem to have adversely judged the police actions in the moment as "simply wrong" before the IOPC investigation has concluded.

I agree with you Luckygirl officers making split second decisions in the dark, they got it wrong and have admitted that.
There are demonstrations outside Southampton police station let by Southampton Patriots who are permanently outside an asylum seekers hotel in the city.
Elon Musk has offered funding to bring an unlawful death lawsuit.

eazybee

^The Police officers on the face of it, initiated CPR and handcuffed what they initially thought was a perpetrator^

The word order is important here. Did they administer CPR then handcuff him; if so why as they would have seen the man was injured, or did they handcuff him first then realise he was in distress?
Something deeply unpleasant about the calculation of the murderer in deliberately calling the police,not an ambulance, to lay an accusation of racial prejudice, and the gullibility of the police in failing to investigate the situation properly as a man was dying at their feet.
Why has the body-cam footage been released?

I would imagine all these concerns will be covered by the investigation. The link in OP states:

“….when police arrived, it was Henry – a University of Southampton finance student – who was handcuffed and arrested after Digwa made his bogus accusations. Temporary Deputy Chief Constable Robert France told the BBC: "It is a tragedy that officers did not immediately understand what had happened to Henry. "I am sorry that he had been handcuffed and arrested as he lost consciousness. "I don't want to hide the facts. I want people to understand the full facts.”

France said he expected the IOPC to investigate "the whole range of what happened" and his force was committed to acting on the watchdog's findings. He added: "The officers who initially interacted with Henry are the same officers who started the CPR, who fought to save his life and I have no doubt of the extensive impact on the officers.”

The IOPC said: "Our thoughts and sympathies are with Henry Nowak's family and everyone affected by his death.
"We are independently investigating the contact Hampshire and Isle of Wight officers had with Mr Nowak prior to his death on 4 December, including the use of handcuffs by officers and the first aid provided.

Namsnanny

MaizieD

I’m really not sure why this particular case of a random murder should be the cause of outrage? Does this by any chance have anything to do with the ethnicity of the murderer?

Perhaps Sago was concerned about the 'police handling of the case'? Or the necessity to allow knives to be carried with impunity? If it is a ceremonial piece could it not be a fake knife?

It probably was / usually is (not fake but not sharp)

Perpetrator had 2 knives, one he's allowed to carry & one he was carrying illegally like so many seem to these days.

eazybee

Why has the body-cam footage NOT been released?

This will no doubt be looked at tin the investigation.

Media reports saying handcuffed then collapsed.

eazybee

Why has the body-cam footage NOT been released?

It may have been shown to the jury, but I don't expect it to be released publicly (if at all) until after the investigation.

eazybee he was handcuffed first from what I read. It was only when he collapsed that they started CPR. Too little too late, an ambulance should have been called much earlier, but they took the killer's version as true and ignored the true victim. I, as many know, have family who are police. I haven't yet sought their opinions.

Why has the body-cam footage NOT been released?

The Police officers on the face of it, initiated CPR and handcuffed what they initially thought was a perpetrator

The word order is important here. Did they administer CPR then handcuff him; if so why as they would have seen the man was injured, or did they handcuff him first then realise he was in distress?
Something deeply unpleasant about the calculation of the murderer in deliberately calling the police,not an ambulance, to lay an accusation of racial prejudice, and the gullibility of the police in failing to investigate the situation properly as a man was dying at their feet.
Why has the body-cam footage been released?

Worrying that any carrying of a knife can be considered acceptable nowadays.

Taking the handcuffs might be more appropriate?

From OP's BBC article link:

"Hampshire and Isle of Wight Constabulary apologised after 23-year-old killer Vickrum Digwa was found guilty of murder on Thursday. The trial heard that Digwa lied to police, falsely claiming he was the victim and alleging he had been subjected to racist abuse. In a statement issued to the BBC, the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) confirmed an investigation into the police force's actions was ongoing".

The murderer has rightly been found guilty. We all agree the murderer behaved appallingly. Every murderer, of each and every ethnicity, found guilty faces the same conviction and punishment. Each and every murder is an absolute tragedy whatever the ethnicity of the murderer and the victim.

The IOPC report hopefully will outline any police actions that fell below standards, involved a racial injustice or police brutality. The Police officers on the face of it, initiated CPR and handcuffed what they initially, thought, in the moment, was a perpetrator- because the murderer lied and falsely claimed he was the victim.

I don't personally see that "taking the knee" is at the moment parallel to this case, unless the IOPC investigation shows there was racial injustice and police brutality - as those were the reasons taking the knee gesture was initiated in protest.

Cossy The PM via the Home Secretary needs to wake up. Of course it’s the responsibility of the government to act.
Who else is responsible when police actions are simply wrong.
And why has the murderer’s brother not been charged for his lies?

NotSpaghetti

MawsRosie it is true that the kirpan was used as a weapon here.
It doesn't mean other kirpans are weapons.
A toothbrush is a deadly weapon in the hands of some.
Sadly.

I hardly think you can compare a sharpened blade with a toothbrush! Yes I know toothbrushes have been used as a weapon within prison settings, but the average thug on the street still carries a knife not a toothbrush. The kirpan is a religious symbol, but it is also a blade with far more potential than other implements normally found about a person. There really has to be some stringent re-evaluation of what is permitted on our streets, and there can't be different rules for different groups. An 8 inch knife in any other situation would not be allowed.
The tragedy here is that it appears Henry was arrested and handcuffed in a 'he said, he said' situation. There doesn't appear to have been any investigation before the racist accusation was acted upon. The report linked to above says Henry left a trail of blood as he attempted to escape, but his accusations appear to have been ignored. By not being totally impartial and acting on the racist accusation these officers didn't do their job properly and an innocent victim died.

MawsRosie

Cossy

Sago

It’s interesting how our Prime Minister and other politicians “took the knee for George Floyd yet nothing from Starmer on the Police’s dreadful handling of this case.

So you are using this awful murder to cast aspirations on other events??

Shane on you!

As you’ll be well aware the George Floyd case in the USA was one of many where white police officials damaged/hurt/killed black people and proved to be a catalyst for many people.

This does not take away from the awfulness of this murder nor the incompetence of the police in this situation and it all needs further investigation.

Floyd was murdered in 2020, Starmer was not PM at that time.

Do you genuinely believe our PM should comment on murders??

Sorry Cossy but in “taking the knee” every politician, sportsperson, celebrity was “commenting on an unlawful killing” aka murder.
I feel like Sago that there has been a lot of virtue signalling which has spiralled out of one (admittedly of too many in the US) particularly shameful incident.
I’m not sure where the accusation of casting aspersions comes into it.

But this is our George Floyd moment and “sorry” won’t cut it, nor will “lessons will be learnt” or any other mealy- mouthed half hearted apologies.

Thank you, very eloquently put.

The carrying of a bladed article is against the law, and no exemptions should be allowed. One murder is one too many.

*explaining not exploring!
Sorry

MawsRosie

I totally agree this whole awful murder was mismanaged by the police, covered up by the perpetrator and his mother and the poor victim and his family had done nothing wrong, I also fully endorse a full investigation.

I am afraid I have to disagree that this is the “UK” George Floyd moment.

It is an opportunity to question (yet again) our failing police procedures and to try and put right the wrongs within our own police force and local communities.

It’s an awful, pointless loss of life and this Sikhs mother should be brought to task and his brother.

I understand she’s also been charged and sentencing for both of them will take place during the next week.

TerriBull I was simply exploring something of the context - as I understand it - re the materials you quoted.

That's all.
Apologies if it didn't sound like that.

NotSpaghetti

TerriBull and Cossy I think thete is some nuance missing here.

I think, from my limited knowledge of this that the teaching is that Racial Prejudice and Racism are different.

Anyone of any racial background can hold personal prejudices, biases, or animosity toward individuals of another race based on stereotypes.

Under this curriculum's definition, Black or globally minoritised individuals can be as "racially prejudiced" as the next person.

But "Racism" (as a systemic structure) needs prejudice AND power.
Systemic and Cultural Power

This is one part of many. It can't really be taken in isolation.

Continually carping on about cultural power, generally historic held by the few not the many is another tool to divide us with. I agree that certain races have and still suffer prejudice. Nevertheless it is often reported that right at the bottom of society's heap these days are white working class boys.

Not wishing to digress from the main thrust of this thread, there have been occasions when the white demographic have been on the end of systemic racism, look no further than the grooming gangs, where certain bodies deemed that the enquiry should encompass all sexual grooming and assaults. Causing much distress amongst the victims in the obfuscation of crimes that were, in their cases, specific to one demographic.

What I've read on this site on numerous occasions when that subject comes up, there's a "you don't care about sexual assaults committed by white men and boys" I think the outrage that many have expressed around the Fordingbridge rape and the non custodial sentences prove that assertion is absolutely not true. The appalling murder of Sarah Everard saw vigils like never seen before.