Burnham: Is the Media Tempting Fate by Jumping the Gun?

Ladyleftfieldlover

‘… giving away many of our assets to foreigners…’

Please explain.

Didn't Thatcher sell our oil to other countries so that, even if we did start drilling for oil in the north sea again we'd have to pay market prices for it? We should have been an oil rich country back then and would still have been reaping the benefits now.

Like to. stir the pot...

Newspapers eh 🤷‍♀️

Padstow13

Well, the iNewspaper seems to be - featuring a photo of the Burnham tribe billed as "the new First Family".

Eh? There's the not insignificant matter of democratic process......or is Andy Burnham's visa to Downing Street sorted and just waiting to be rubber-stamped?

Yes, it's disgraceful that any party can do this.
I hope they have jumped the gun and it doesn't go to plan.
And especially after the utterly disgraceful way a real socialist was treated and hounded out a few years ago.

Ok- in which case perhaps David49 might answer?

Ladyleftfieldlover had lifted a quote from a post above hers by David49, and she was asking what he meant by that phrase I think?

Thats I understand Cason, but Ladleftfidler said we should be giving away our assets to foreigners- why and on what basis?

LemonJam

Not sure what LadyLeftfidler. means by giving away our assets to foreigners???

Canadian pension investment funds have paid £billions into some UK water companies over the years- Anglian Water, Thames Water and Northumbrian Water. They thus are shareholders in a private business model. Whether UK or other country shareholders investing in water companies the key issue is should UK utility companies be within state control or private control- its not a problem per se with foreigners

In the same way UK pension funds invest heavily in non UK utility companies, thus are foreign investors in other countries. It's called global diversification. i.e. financial investors spreading assets worldwide mitigates the risk of regional economic down turn. Not sure any government would be able to change *global diversification investment*

I think it’s about British owned, profit making private businesses being sold off, and depleting our manufacturing base.

If anyone really wants to know how it all works for the super rich, this film explains it. www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6JhF-Ztzrw

Not sure what LadyLeftfidler. means by giving away our assets to foreigners???

Canadian pension investment funds have paid £billions into some UK water companies over the years- Anglian Water, Thames Water and Northumbrian Water. They thus are shareholders in a private business model. Whether UK or other country shareholders investing in water companies the key issue is should UK utility companies be within state control or private control- its not a problem per se with foreigners

In the same way UK pension funds invest heavily in non UK utility companies, thus are foreign investors in other countries. It's called global diversification. i.e. financial investors spreading assets worldwide mitigates the risk of regional economic down turn. Not sure any government would be able to change global diversification investment

Ladyleftfieldlover

‘… giving away many of our assets to foreigners…’

Please explain.

I think that this is refering to things like a Canadian pension fund partly owning one of our water companies, or French Government investment in our utilities.

petra

MaizieD
Would you say there is anyone on the right or left who understands this?

Clive Lewis

I expect a few do, but it's very hard to shift the conventional narrative.

Perhaps you should post the link to The Spider's Web again....

'Wealth' is not your friend...

MaizieD
Would you say there is anyone on the right or left who understands this?

Iam64

Keep calm and carry on is the slogan for our times. Like LemonJam I’m hopeful and positive about Andy Burnham. I was about Keir Starmer and it was a very long time before I reluctantly agreed he had to go.

Andy Burnham is more of a fairly well known politician as he used to and now represents areas I know well. When he mentioned the left behind he named Platt Bridge which I’m very familiar with because of my working life. Honestly I feel emotional remembering the ex mining families who lost pride, couldn’t find any work and so much alcohol and drug addiction followed. Andy gets it, that’s what’s needed

How true Iam64
You would have to be deaf dumb and blind not to be aware of the north/ south divide. Especially when you realise what came from the north: the Industrial Revolution which set this country on its way to being a powerhouse of industry and innovation.

www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zqhvmnb/revision/2#:~:text=Although%20there%20have%20been%20attempts,those%20living%20in%20the%20south.

David49

"A Labour government could be the party that will invest in our country."

It could be, but there are no signs that it will be, until we start investing for growth it won't happen, we have a growing population with higher expectations. Despite giving away many of our assets to foreigners we are still borrowing 100% of GDP which costs us £100bn a year in interest.

Radical change is needed and I don't see where that is going to come from.

You seem to be missing the point.

It is only government investment in productive initiatives that will kick start growth and attract business investment.

Stop worrying about 'borrowing'. The money we 'borrow', as I have said before, is the money which has already been put into the economy through government spending; those who have some of the excess money resulting from the 'deficit' are happy to 'invest' it in government bonds because they are the safest place for it; it has a guaranteed return and the government will never default on repaying the principal. It is, in fact, a vital service for institutions such as pension funds because of this. Governments have been issuing bonds for hundreds of years because there is a demand for them.

Bond interest rates 'could' be controlled by the government, they don't have to be so high, it should take the BoE in hand and require it to lower them. It may be theoretically independent but it belongs to the state and government has ultimate legal control of it. Technically the government could run an 'overdraft' with the BoE and cut down massively on bond issuance. Alternatively, the government could direct the BoE to buy its bonds like it did for quantitative easing. It's time it worked for the good of the country, not of 'investors'.

The other method of cutting 'borrowing' would be for the government to introduce a truly progressive tax policy so that the excess money held by the wealthy is reduced via taxation. Which, to me, would seem a more sensible way to drain excess money from the economy and cut the 'deficit' than to drain it via bond issuance and then pay interest...

Radical change is needed and I don't see where that is going to come from.

Exactly so.

David49

"A Labour government could be the party that will invest in our country."

It could be, but there are no signs that it will be, until we start investing for growth it won't happen, we have a growing population with higher expectations. Despite giving away many of our assets to foreigners we are still borrowing 100% of GDP which costs us £100bn a year in interest.

Radical change is needed and I don't see where that is going to come from.

Federalisation is precisely the sort of structural reform that changes how investment decisions are made. Rather than relying on Westminster to decide where growth comes from, it would empower regions to invest directly in transport, housing, skills, and business support, with the aim of boosting productivity and economic growth.

Whether it succeeds would depend less on the constitutional change itself and more on the quality of regional leadership, the powers devolved, the fiscal framework, and whether investment is directed toward projects that genuinely improve productivity.

The post-war federal structure of West Germany was shaped by all three Western occupying powers - the UK, the US, and France - but Britain was an important advocate of decentralisation. Many economists and political scientists would say Germany's federal model has delivered several advantages over the UK's highly centralised system. Some of the commonly cited strengths are:

More balanced regional economies
Greater local investment.
Long-term policy stability
Strong local government

There are additional reasons of course, why Germany has done well. I'm personally interested in their renowned Mittelstand of medium-sized firms. Something to do more research on

It's ironic when you think that Britain helped build a decentralised post-war Germany, yet remained one of the most centralised countries in Europe itself!

‘… giving away many of our assets to foreigners…’

Please explain.

"A Labour government could be the party that will invest in our country."

It could be, but there are no signs that it will be, until we start investing for growth it won't happen, we have a growing population with higher expectations. Despite giving away many of our assets to foreigners we are still borrowing 100% of GDP which costs us £100bn a year in interest.

Radical change is needed and I don't see where that is going to come from.

Luckygirl3

*perpetrating the entirely false model of a national economy being the same as a household economy*

This idea is so entrenched now I see no way out. If even Labour espouses this idea where to turn for a party that will invest in our country and generate jobs and growth?

I don’t quite understand what you are asking, Luckygirl.

A Labour government could be the party that will invest in our country. It has the power if it cares to grasp it and ignore the lobbying of the rich and the financial sector. Economist, Maria Mazzucato, wrote a book some time ago, The Entrepreneurial State’ which showed how US government investment post WW2 in, among other things, technologyseeded the development of computers and computers technology in a way that no private individual or business could ever have done because tgey could not have afforded the research and development costs. Yet from that initial investment has arisen a plethora of highly successful private companies which make a big contribution to GDP.

I could also say that the US fervent belief in unregulated markets has led to many evils as a result of this, but regulation could well be differently managed. That’s a political/ideological matter. The essential lesson is that government investment can open the way to attract entrepreneurs and private investment (isn’t that what we’ve been crying out for?) in areas where it’s appropriate. Have we not recently noted that UK government investment in green energy has led to green industrial developments worth £100billion p.a to the UK?

Government has the power to positively influence markets, not cower in fear of them. That power is the ability to create the money needed for productive investment without having to pay it back with interest to anyone. It has done it before during the GFC and Covid (though admittedly not very productively), it can do it again to benefit the country.

perpetrating the entirely false model of a national economy being the same as a household economy

This idea is so entrenched now I see no way out. If even Labour espouses this idea where to turn for a party that will invest in our country and generate jobs and growth?

the population as a whole wants soundbites and slogans and 'charisma' .... I would change the word population to media .... they are what is driving this nonsense.

It is indeed no way to run a country.

But change we must despite the pain if not we continue to decline.

MaizieD

MayBee70

Post truth politics has now entered the age of ego politics I fear

We entered the age of post truth politics when Thatcher declared that there was no government money, only taxpayers money…

Where on earth did she think the taxpayers money came from?

That was the illusion created by Thatcher and all PMs since, that we could give away public assets like Council Houses, Hospitals, Utilities into commercial ownership without consequences for short term gain

We now know the cost of that and it's going to be very painful to change that.

MayBee70

Post truth politics has now entered the age of ego politics I fear

We entered the age of post truth politics when Thatcher declared that there was no government money, only taxpayers money…

Where on earth did she think the taxpayers money came from?