Another 'Brexit win'? People smuggler convicted in France found by BBC living in UK and seeking asylum

Beats me how these people whose first language is not English can get round the officials and paperwork to sort themselves out with council properties.

In the news today that this people smuggler has been renting a council flat in Leicester for 2 years yet he owns a £400k property in the county.

Re-joining would require the approval and acceptance of the member states.

I don't think, at the moment, there would necessarily be agreement from all of them. Having proved we are not 'team players' I think the scepticism would be valid.

The anti-EU stance of Johnson's government, the way it blamed the EU for treating us as the third country which it was compelled to do, attempting to give the impression we were being punished for leaving - a baton picked up by the RW media - this will stay long in the memory of member states and the European Parliament.

And even recently, Starmer attempting to create a civilised and co-operative relationship with the EU was seen by the same media as a betrayal of the BREXIT vote, and rumbled on about 'secretly' attempting a re-join.

The 'vibes' are just not right at this time.

That's why I think we should 'move on' - for now. Until it's no longer up to us.

I entirely agree and hope for that rational outcome Dickens.

LemonJam

I get frustrated by the 'get over its you lost' comments- plus all the judgemental comments along the lines of those that voted remain are 'bleeding heart' 'liberals', 'woke', of a higher social class 'so can't understand' etc etc.

The younger generation don't seem to be afflicted by this approach and just judge the situation based on their experience and aspirations pragmatically.

It is the younger generation, hopefully, that will bring about this paradigm shift.

When we are long gone, what we think, how we voted, etc, will become irrelevant.

At some point in the future, a decision will be made based on the nation's economic best interests.

Whitewavemark2

This was flagged at the time of the vote along with other stuff.

We were told

Project Fear

But obviously people didn't take in ANY of the consequences to leaving all they saw was a bloody big red bus saying how much we would save if we voted leave and they thought miraculously no one would be able/ want to come as an illegal immigrant🙄 I would Love to know if the money was ever giving to the NHS as promised or did it disappear into the bottomless PIT that is Whitehall.

I get frustrated by the 'get over its you lost' comments- plus all the judgemental comments along the lines of those that voted remain are 'bleeding heart' 'liberals', 'woke', of a higher social class 'so can't understand' etc etc.

The younger generation don't seem to be afflicted by this approach and just judge the situation based on their experience and aspirations pragmatically.

It angers me that so many people are collateral damage from Brexit but just get a shrug of the shoulders and a ‘ you lost, get over it’ comment. And it seems that just as many immigrants come here but they’re from different countries. Not that Brexit was about immigrants, was it…

The referendum was 10 years ago and both leavers and remainers have lived with the marginal outcome to leave for 10 years now. We have moved on and have all got older.

Successive governments have been dealing with the fall out. but neither right or left wing can ignore the huge loss and impact of free access to the huge EU trading bloc etc.

It seemingly remains a highly emotive issue for Gransnet generation as can be seen on this post. Possibly, probably and seemingly the younger generation are less emotional and more pragmatic and more long term oriented in their EU thinking.

There is almost universal acceptance the outcomes have been adverse. Very, very few are willing or able to decisively put forward a list of evidence based positive outcomes.

When weighing up the pros and cons of Brexit it appears the younger generation are not so influenced by some of the things posters have mentioned here- class, xenophobia, racism, 'wokeness', 'bleeding hearts', etc etc- as mentioned. The overwhelming majority have simply decided it would be in their better interest to rejoin- of all classes and all political persuasions.

It matters less for our generation as we have already lived much of our lives. The younger generation have more of their lives to come.

I agree it's vital to listen to the younger generation and they overwhelmingly would like to return to the EU. On that basis it easy for political parties see how plans to rejoin will be a younger generation vote winner. That paradigm shift is likely to continue. That paradigm shift will make our generation's views less and less relevant over time.....

Mamie

Yes sorry, the "we" included an implicit "our generation".

I have long and 'deep' discussions with my eldest grandson on this.

He's a British citizen currently studying Journalism and Politics at a university in South Africa, but hopes to return to the UK ultimately and immerse himself in our political life.

Some of my 'thinking' is based on how we've explored the matter of BREXIT, what lay behind it (apart from the obvious) etc.

Apologies for not understanding.

Yes sorry, the "we" included an implicit "our generation".

Mamie

Dickens do you not think we should be guided by what younger generations want?
Quoting AI "In the UK, an overwhelming majority of younger people want to join or rejoin the EU. Recent polling shows that between 81% and 83% of 16-to-25-year-olds would vote to return to the bloc in a referendum, driven by a desire for free movement and broader economic opportunities."
This is certainly true of my adult grandchildren and other young people I know. Should we not be listening to them?

Should we not be listening to them?

Yes, my grandsons feel the same.

It's not me they have to convince.

Dickens do you not think we should be guided by what younger generations want?
Quoting AI "In the UK, an overwhelming majority of younger people want to join or rejoin the EU. Recent polling shows that between 81% and 83% of 16-to-25-year-olds would vote to return to the bloc in a referendum, driven by a desire for free movement and broader economic opportunities."
This is certainly true of my adult grandchildren and other young people I know. Should we not be listening to them?

MaizieD

I’m afraid that I cannot move on, as you would clearly like, Dickens...

I hear you.

This is my rationale. You can shoot me - but I doubt I can change my 'thinking'.

Polls notwithstanding, attempting to convince sceptics that we are better off IN than OUT; that BREXIT proponents/major players both openly and behind-the-scenes were devious and corrupt - is futile.
Unless there is a paradigm shift in the way we run our economy and politics, and a halt to the continuing drive towards unregulated Capitalism - then I believe 'moving on' is the only option.
... and unless we acknowledge that Multiculturism and Immigration have a very different impact on those living in East Horsley, as I once did, to the effect it has on individuals who live in Tower Hamlets, we lack the understanding that's necessary to do anything BUT move on.

GrannyGravy13

Mamie

GrannyGravy13

Oh the names - Xenophobes, Racists and not forgetting Little Englanders.

Old hat, utterly meaningless when trotted out as frequently as they are on N & P threads…

Ditto woke, bleeding hearts, broken hearted, liberals and other boring clichés.

Fortunately Mamie your examples are not phrases/words that have been delivered via my keyboard.

Nor I have I ever used your examples of name-calling GrannyGravy13.
This is despite the facts that for those of us who were living in the EU, the consequences of Brexit have been considerable and long-lasting.

Mamie

GrannyGravy13

Oh the names - Xenophobes, Racists and not forgetting Little Englanders.

Old hat, utterly meaningless when trotted out as frequently as they are on N & P threads…

Ditto woke, bleeding hearts, broken hearted, liberals and other boring clichés.

Fortunately Mamie your examples are not phrases/words that have been delivered via my keyboard.

GrannyGravy13

Oh the names - Xenophobes, Racists and not forgetting Little Englanders.

Old hat, utterly meaningless when trotted out as frequently as they are on N & P threads…

Ditto woke, bleeding hearts, broken hearted, liberals and other boring clichés.

Oh the names - Xenophobes, Racists and not forgetting Little Englanders.

Old hat, utterly meaningless when trotted out as frequently as they are on N & P threads…

We can get closer to the EU in some ways of course now that ten years have elapsed, but no renegotiation of the important things.
We haven’t exploded or imploded after leaving and with time it will improve ( relations with EU countries). We’re part of Europe and always will be.

MaizieD

Galaxy

How do you expect to discuss it rationally and then go on to call people xenophobes. How is that going to work.

The xenophobes don't do rational discussion, Galaxy. They trot out the same tropes over and over again and refuse to acknowledge anything which might challenge their opinions.

I can already see your answer to this, of course...

Well my answer to that is that the broken hearted ones at leaving the EU come out with the same insults and refuse to acknowledge anything that might challenge their opinions.
It’s over it’s done, high time to get used to it.
The government of the day led by Cameron encouraged the population to vote and they voted accordingly.That’s how referendums turn out, it won’t please everyone.

GrannyGravy13

Grantanow

Brexit: the gift that continues to give. All down to Farage, the Tory loony Eurosceptics and other numpties.

I have always found once you start calling people names you have lost any argument you may have…

Exactly, including labelling all Leave voters as xenophobes.

Galaxy

How do you expect to discuss it rationally and then go on to call people xenophobes. How is that going to work.

The xenophobes don't do rational discussion, Galaxy. They trot out the same tropes over and over again and refuse to acknowledge anything which might challenge their opinions.

I can already see your answer to this, of course...

Exactly so petra, and it cuts all ways. The same is true of xenophobia, and of tolerance of people who are different to oneself, it cuts across all social groups.

GrannyGravy13

Galaxy

How can it be discussed rationally when people won't acknowledge the class element, and that a large part of it is the middle class unable to understand classes other than their own.

Definitely 👍

It was ever thus but now thanks to the www they can’t hide it 😂

Galaxy

How can it be discussed rationally when people won't acknowledge the class element, and that a large part of it is the middle class unable to understand classes other than their own.

Definitely 👍

petra

At least we have Brexit to blame for all our woes.
Where does Germany put the blame for their demise 🤷‍♀️
Once they were the power house of Europe, but no more.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002ymwc

Odd that 🤷‍♀️