Police launch an investigation into Ann Widdecombe death

Satire and comedy has become nastier recently. It's supposed to be clever.

eazybee

My question was to Galaxy.
Something needs to be done, because comments are becoming increasingly offensive, and simply calling them edgy achieves nothing.

What is edgy changes over time and depends a lot on the person listening. It's just a useful phrase - one could equally use "is it out of order" "is it beyond the pale". All fine by me in analysing statements or jokes.

ReturningFromExile

By the way, what's wrong with the phrase 'Be kind'? I've seen it in our local hospital, asking patients and visitors to treat their staff with respect. The poster showed an Asian doctor.

They are all over the place these days, I agree with you. Treating people who are caring in one way or another and even on phone lines whatever the back ground. Something about unreasonable entitlement going on here.

(There are definitely patients who still insist "I want to see a proper/white doctor" etc etc but less as time goes on)

(I got caught up researching “crossing the Line” jokes, and if you have time to spare these are all very interesting as they look at male and female reactions (and job background and age too)

So if you have the inclination, go to U tube and enter “crossing the line Neel Kolhatar” - deal with anti men, anti women, Muslims, Jewish people, Mental health issues)

By the way, what's wrong with the phrase 'Be kind'? I've seen it in our local hospital, asking patients and visitors to treat their staff with respect. The poster showed an Asian doctor.

It is hard eazybee but we cant legislate on what people find offensive, I find all sorts of things offensive, but I do accept I cant lock up people who say men are women or who use the phrase be kind.

Jo Brand is about as edgy as a custard pie.
I would say you counter horrible speech with your own speech. It is all deeply unpleasant and sickening but further control of speech is the greater of two evils in my view.
I would say that how governments behave in times of crisis is a critical test, Covid, the aftermath of Southport, I have serious concerns about both of those.

Thanks again Graphite
It's always best to have actual facts I think.

eazybee

My question was to Galaxy.
Something needs to be done, because comments are becoming increasingly offensive, and simply calling them edgy achieves nothing.

Nor does someone deciding whether the comments are acceptable or not, though.

One person's 'offensive' is someone else's 'amusing' or 'acceptable'. The difference has to be the context, and whether the comment is inciting action, and/or aimed at people with protected characteristics.

Lucy Connolly's comments crossed into both camps at a time of riot. Jo Brand's were made in peacetime and were neither incitement nor aimed at a protected group. Those are the differences, whether any of us find them offensive or not.

My question was to Galaxy.
Something needs to be done, because comments are becoming increasingly offensive, and simply calling them edgy achieves nothing.

ReturningFromExile

I'd class Jo Brand's comment alongside that unspeakable remark about Ann Widdecombe. I can't stand Nigel Farage, by the way, and disagreed with much of what Ann Widdecombe stood for, but we should observe basic standards of human decency.

I agree that the comments were comparable, but not that they should have the same weight under law. Incitement is different from comment, and commenting in peacetime is different from comments made in times of crisis.

MT62

Galaxy

The person who made the comments about Ann widdecombe is a man.
Neither that man or jo brand should go to prison for their words. They are both in my view deeply unpleasant people. I have concerns about some of what happened during the riots and I think you can trace Starmers fall from there. But imprisoning more people for words is not the way to deal with things.

Oh what to suggest she’d wish it had been battery acid, instead of milkshake!
You don’t think that’s putting ideas in people’s heads?
I think it was a despicable thing to say.
If she’s worked in MH she should know better.

I think we need some perspective. A lot of comedians make very unpleasant remarks indeed - very borderline unacceptable - about women generally, about people with disabilities, about race, about people who are overweight or people in the public glare.

These remarks are all very offensive to one group or another indeed, but none of them are regarded as "incitement".

They are deliberately borderline and tbh I do not rate them as comedy:

and as I said I do not like nor approve of Jo Brands particular statement but if we are going to call it incitement then a whole load of "Edgy" comedy will be banned.

Keep thy mouth shut!

eazybee

So, how do you deal with things?
That is, people making foul suggestions about other's misfortune.
What is your suggestion?

Who is that to?

So, how do you deal with things?
That is, people making foul suggestions about other's misfortune.
What is your suggestion?

Galaxy

The person who made the comments about Ann widdecombe is a man.
Neither that man or jo brand should go to prison for their words. They are both in my view deeply unpleasant people. I have concerns about some of what happened during the riots and I think you can trace Starmers fall from there. But imprisoning more people for words is not the way to deal with things.

Oh what to suggest she’d wish it had been battery acid, instead of milkshake!
You don’t think that’s putting ideas in people’s heads?
I think it was a despicable thing to say.
If she’s worked in MH she should know better.

Graphite

29 July 2024 Connolly posted the message

6 August 2024 Arrested

9 August 2024 Charged

10 August 2024 Magistrates Court (where all cases begin) referred to Crown Court as the case was considered unsuitable for summary trial.

12 August 2024 Plea and trial preparation hearing adjourned until

2 September 2024 Appears by video link and pleads guilty to the offence of distributing material with the intention of stirring up racial hatred. The Probation Service was directed to prepare a “pre-sentence report” and sentencing was adjourned until

31 October 2024 where she was sentenced to 31 months in prison for a crime that can carry a penalty of seven years in prison.

She wasn’t fast tracked. That would be a normal time frame for a relatively straightforward case (e.g. no other persons involved) when someone is charged and pleads guilty.

15 May 2025 Appeal heard and sentence upheld.

21 August 2025 Released from prison.

Apologies- I am wrong again!

29 July 2024 Connolly posted the message

6 August 2024 Arrested

9 August 2024 Charged

10 August 2024 Magistrates Court (where all cases begin) referred to Crown Court as the case was considered unsuitable for summary trial.

12 August 2024 Plea and trial preparation hearing adjourned until

2 September 2024 Appears by video link and pleads guilty to the offence of distributing material with the intention of stirring up racial hatred. The Probation Service was directed to prepare a “pre-sentence report” and sentencing was adjourned until

31 October 2024 where she was sentenced to 31 months in prison for a crime that can carry a penalty of seven years in prison.

She wasn’t fast tracked. That would be a normal time frame for a relatively straightforward case (e.g. no other persons involved) when someone is charged and pleads guilty.

15 May 2025 Appeal heard and sentence upheld.

21 August 2025 Released from prison.

Jo Brand - I despise that comment:

tho I do like a lot of her "out there" humour, I like her on HIGNFY etc. But she started her working life as a MH nurse, so the Community Service Option is right in front of us.

A bit of community service would do the trick, I think.

The person who made the comments about Ann widdecombe is a man.
Neither that man or jo brand should go to prison for their words. They are both in my view deeply unpleasant people. I have concerns about some of what happened during the riots and I think you can trace Starmers fall from there. But imprisoning more people for words is not the way to deal with things.

Doodledog

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything, really.

LC was jailed for inciting people to burn people alive. I have no sympathy for her, other than to concede that if she hadn't done it at a time of civil unrest the sentence would have been more lenient. But that is always the case - I remember a woman being jailed for not reporting her child (can't remember if it was a son or daughter) who stole a bottle of water from a shop during a riot. Many young people got criminal records that will follow them though life for similar offences, and had they taken place in 'usual times' they would've got off with a caution.

Desperate times call for desperate measures, don't they?

It has a lot to do with it. Someone had pointed out how long it takes for someone to go through court proceedings.
I am merely pointing out about LC being fast tracked into prison, which I thought was incredibly quick.
I watched something on her recently. The way she typed out those words, It could have been taken out of context. I do think she was made an example of for sure.
Which I am not going to go into on here, as I don’t know what way she meant it. Only she knows.
But what that other lady said about Annie, is way worse than what LC said imo. She definitely should receive prison time.
Joe brand (seen her & walked out after 5 minutes) that was a disgraceful comment to make towards NF. She definitely got off lightly, since, he’s had continuous attacks.
Seems to be one rule for one, one rule for the other.

Just to be clear I'm not condoning Bland.

Jo Brands comments were vile, if someone had done what she said then what. Would that be incitement. We shouldn't except in very rare cases imprison people for the words they say and we should also remember to try and ignore comedians on terrible panel shows.

I'd class Jo Brand's comment alongside that unspeakable remark about Ann Widdecombe. I can't stand Nigel Farage, by the way, and disagreed with much of what Ann Widdecombe stood for, but we should observe basic standards of human decency.

Graphite thanks. I think that's very clear.

Also Brand's comment - though awful, was after the event... And not telling people to go out and throw acid.