Police launch an investigation into Ann Widdecombe death

Whitewavemark2

Dance to reform’s tune by all means.

Criticism of the police over the Widdecombe case is both premature and shows a willingness to to criticise without due consideration of the facts.

Exactly. Farrage is exploiting this murder as deflection from concerns about his integrity

Dance to reform’s tune by all means.

Criticism of the police over the Widdecombe case is both premature and shows a willingness to to criticise without due consideration of the facts.

Why are you surprised, Galaxy? Don't most people take things on a case by case basis? We are not automatons who either support wholeheartedly or condemn utterly.

There has been constant criticism of the police for at least the last decade, in terms of racism, misogyny, I am a little surprised that people are concerned about criticism now.
I think from what I remember the force concerned only came out of special measures last year? , so I think some expressing of concern is understandable.

Woman not woman’s

Farage has successfully at the moment turned attention away from his fraudulent/corrupt income and investigation if his unexplained millions to his assertion that he is one of the most threatened MPs.

Until he can show me that he gets more threats than most of the women in parliament than I take his claim with a pinch of salt.

I read that the police are investigating the threat by someone to shoot Farage.

If the police investigated every threat to kill a woman’s MP, they would be very busy indeed.

The criticism of the police is directly out of reforms agenda.

So unless you are a reform supporter it is not particularly clever to criticise something that we actually have neither the access to the facts or allowing the far right to run the agenda.

Sadly Anne Widdecombe was an easy target, an older lady living alone with no close neighbours. Such a tragic way to have your life end.

I agree Luckygirl.
A lot of police bashing going on.

You can't stop people speculating. But this constant implied or openly stated criticism of the police really pulls my chain.
They are in the middle of a complex murder enquiry with added political overtones that drag it all into the public eye. I cannot think how difficult this must be ..... sifting evidence, exploring theories trying to protect the publi whilst constantly fending off the next journalist.

I cannot see that they have done anything wrong. They had an initial suspect and made an arrest ... when they knew it was the wrong man he was speedily released. If they had good grounds to suspect him they could not let him roam free and would have been slated if they had.
As more evidence emerged they moved on to other theories and a new suspect.
This is called doing their job.

NotSpaghetti

It would be SO refreshing to not have a running commentary from the press!
...given that it's all hot air!

I agree.

I hosted afternoon tea yesterday at my property, similar to AW's here in Devon, and all the ladies of a certain age commented on how we live with doors wide open at the moment in this weather. No need to sensationalise anything or speculate in our everyday conversations, but the press have to make stories, which people readily lap up.

It would be SO refreshing to not have a running commentary from the press!
...given that it's all hot air!

Having to do a complex job, while keeping up a commentary to satisfy the media and the public?
Just let them get on with it.

I agree Graphite, if you read the actual words the police spokesman have said throughout, it’s always been on the basis of what they knew at that point, and they consistently said that.

I think the media’s frustration at not knowing yet exactly what led to the attack is playing out through jibes at the police to keep the story live, because they don’t have anything else to tell us yet.

MartavTaurus. What is unusual though …

Why unusual?

What Longman said on Friday 10 July was: I have no information to believe that that is a politically-motivated crime.

At that time they had the wrong man in custody so what Longman says makes complete sense.

The man they now have in custody wasn’t arrested until Saturday at around 9:00am.

At around 11:30am that same morning, Longman gave another press conference and said, At this stage there is nothing to suggest this was politically motivated.

That makes complete sense too.

The suspect would have been read his rights and told he had the right to remain silent and that he was entitled to legal representation.

We don’t know where he was at that stage. He could still have been in a cell in a police station in Yorkshire waiting to be transported to Exeter, or on his way to Exeter to be questioned by officers from Devon and Cornwall Police.

Meantime, police including forensic officers would have been searching and securing the suspect’s home and belongings.

On Monday, he was rearrested on suspicion of commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism and Counter Terrorism Police took over the case.

Clearly, something was discovered between the time of the Saturday press conference and then. Nothing unusual. Just an investigation taking its course.

The last four posts sum up my feelings, too.

My speculative comment is that if the far left were planning an assassination there are far more high profile and objectionable figures on the right than AW. I'd be more than surprised if this is organised at all, and if it is, organised by anything more sinister or widespread than the Tooting Popular Front with a seriously disturbed member.

AW was an old lady who was becoming more of a media pundit than a politician. She had strong views, many of which were outdated at best, but it was clear that she was a kindly person - she wasn't a hate figure, I don't think.

Anyway, my own speculation aside, I agree that it's best to wait for the experts to get to the bottom of it. Whatever they find, it is a tragedy, and it's worrying to see that this is where the divisive rhetoric and dehumanising of those who don't share political/cultural views has got us.

What was said on Friday was said on Friday- it was the early stages of a complex investigation that has moved at pace since.

The news.devon-cornwall.police,uk news website has quite.a long spiel from ACC Longman dated 10 July following the first arrest then released including:

"Our murder enquiry is in its early stages but moving at a significant pace" .... "we will relay further information about the incident. when we are able to do so, I would ask people not to speculate about what might have happened, particularly on social media".

I would imagine that direct in house police news website is the most reliable of ACC Longman statement source compared to newspapers. ACC Longman could only relay information according to what evidence was secured at any specific moment in time. If evidence was not available at that stage to suggest it was a politically motivated crime it was not available and he clarified he wasn't ruling out that or any motivation.

Under PACE code C -standard police forces do not have the powers hold a suspect longer than 24 hours without sufficient evidence to charge, as outlined in an earlier post- so released.

According to BBC news article Sunday 12 July, 2 days later, AAC Longman was quoted as saying there was "nothing to suggest it was politically motivated" but that officers remained "open minded" about a potential motive and.... there was no information (at that stage) to suggest the attack on AW was terrorism related.

New information can emerge at any stage- even minutes after a statement or newspaper article.

In line with 10 July comments- the investigation continued to move at signifiant pace such that it was then handed over to counter terrorism- different PACE code H- different detention powers- can hold for up to 14 days under suspicion only pending further enquiries, suspect help in high security, secret location TACT suite as. set out in earlier post.

The ket words for me ACC Longman 'remained open minded" asking public "not to speculate" "to suggest" and "we will relay further information when we can" and an investigation moving at fast paste.....THEN handed over to CT.

Iam64

Thanks LemonJam for expressing similar views to mine. The idea of sitting in judgement on police or counter terrorism officers at this stage, based on speculation fits the anti police/public servants agenda. Imo .

I agree

I agree, there should be no speculating or jumping to conclusions.

What is unusual though, is that Assistant Chief Constable Matt Longman himself, straightaway told a news conference on Friday, after the first arrest that, in his opinion, "this was not a politically motivated crime". Some might not see that as that jumping to conclusions, too early, but many people here locally do.

I have no doubt that counter-terrorism investigators know a lot more than they are publishing, and that's how it should be.

Thanks LemonJam for expressing similar views to mine. The idea of sitting in judgement on police or counter terrorism officers at this stage, based on speculation fits the anti police/public servants agenda. Imo .

Wyllow3

Primrose53

There is still too much that doesn’t add up. The suspect’s neighbours report that he was a recluse who rarely left his house and whose car was so seldom used that there were weeds all around it. Yet he manages to drive nearly 300 miles in a very short time.

Just read that Police are considering “left wing motive” in the murder investigation.

Last night I heard this dreadful crime described as an assassination.

I know someone would come up with that, and I perused the Guardian and The Times and The Independant.

They are considering

left wing
abortion
gay motive
other strong views that AW had.

Also we need to bear in mind:

The Jo Cox murderer was extreme right but had severe MH issues as well.

So instead of jumping on a specific label, I suggest waiting.

We also only get to know what is proper to reveal at any given point and are rightly not party to the full investigations.

There is little point in arguing should it have been the police or CT immediately.

It will make no difference to the tragic event.

It doesn't need to add up to the public- surely the aim and priority is to unearth the necessary evidence to see that justice is done- not satisfy public curiosity?

I agree with Wyllow3- jumping to speculative conclusions and rationale without published evidence detail, though human, is fairly pointless at this stage.

The listed motives are merely "possible motives". Evidence could lead to other motivations. The arrested person may have been employed to carry out acts - commissioned by another person/s. The motivation of that other person, if that is the case, also to be investigated - if the arrested person knows who they are (could have acted under an alias) and how they can be contacted (burner phones might have been used).

It is apparently a complex enquiry. If others are involved in planning and commissioning any violent acts against AW it is unlikely the counter-terrorist investigators are going to fully publish their investigation status?

MartavTaurus

Thank you. Yes, Devonlive is my daily, as I live in the county. It is easy to read (!), whether it is 100% accurate, I'm not so sure because it often lacks depth.

Anyway, I was looking for the answer as to how counter-terrorism police instigated the take over of the case. It says, Counter-terrorism officers take over the investigation and rearrest the 28-year-old on suspicion of the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism. Did they take over because THEY knew something D & C P were not privy to? In which case should they not have been involved from the start instead of our girce arresting the wrong person, and quite frankly being made to look a bit inept.

I don't know who "instigated a takeover of the case" . But in this case, it's obvious that initial enquiries made it necessary to extend the second suspect's secure detention in custody (longer than the PACE time limit )

Why do you feel the first arrest implied any ineptitude on the part of local police ?

Primrose53

There is still too much that doesn’t add up. The suspect’s neighbours report that he was a recluse who rarely left his house and whose car was so seldom used that there were weeds all around it. Yet he manages to drive nearly 300 miles in a very short time.

Just read that Police are considering “left wing motive” in the murder investigation.

Last night I heard this dreadful crime described as an assassination.

I know someone would come up with that, and I perused the Guardian and The Times and The Independant.

They are considering

left wing
abortion
gay motive
other strong views that AW had.

Also we need to bear in mind:

The Jo Cox murderer was extreme right but had severe MH issues as well.

So instead of jumping on a specific label, I suggest waiting.

We also only get to know what is proper to reveal at any given point and are rightly not party to the full investigations.

There is little point in arguing should it have been the police or CT immediately.

It will make no difference to the tragic event.

Interesting discussion about this on The Rest is Politics.

Luckygirl3

I am sure that the police are doing their best and co-operating with any branch of law enforcement that might be able to help. This man is out of circulation and I am very pleased about that.

They have acted speedily and I am grateful for that.

The full details will come out as the investigation proceeds.

I expect the police are doing their best, now.

But that was not the case at the beginning, especially hearing today on Radio 4, Jonathan Hall KC, the government's independent reviewer of terrorism legislation, saying that he was "slightly surprised" the Devon and Cornwall Police force had guided the public away from the idea of there being a potential political element in the first place.

I am not knocking the police in general without reason, but this is my police force, and along with others in the constabulary, I feel the error needs to be addressed fully. We need to trust our local force.
Of course, the investigation will have more answers.