Police launch an investigation into Ann Widdecombe death

Buckfast. Always check first 🙄

Lovely Bickfasr Abbey. Just right for her.

Personally, I am not a believer, but I do hope Anne is now at peace with her God….😢

To end on a note of hope, Ann Widdecombe is to have a private funeral service for family and close friends in the beautiful Buckfast Abbey. She attended services there, so quite fitting.

I also agree with your kind comments about Ann - I respect her view if not totally agreeing with it faith wise.

How we are segueing into linking Brands comments on Farage with her death is beyond me, however. They shared political POV, not being murdered. Jo Cox was murdered as was David Amess. There is the commonality, the horror.

Allsorts

I had never heard that awful comment by Jo Brand, that is in my opinion totally unacceptable whoever and whatever her personal opinion is of a person, and she should be banned on tv and radio, making comments like that is a new low. I hope she is thoroughly ashamed of herself, truly a mother not to be proud of and not a person I will watch again.
Ann died a horrible death, I do hope she us with the God she beleived in.

There were a lot of complaints at the time asking for the BBC to sack her but she smugly said “They do not employ me so how can they sack me?”

I absolutely agree with your kind comment about Ann.

Wyllow3

Jo Brand did apologise.

It took me one search

to reveal:

"Yes, Jo Brand apologized for the joke, which was made during a June 2019 broadcast on BBC Radio 4's Heresy. In the segment, she suggested throwing battery acid instead of milkshakes at "unpleasant characters".

She formally apologized at the Henley Literary Festival, describing the remark as "crass and ill-judged".

I meant she refused to apologise to Nigel Farage. There is footage of her being interviewed leaving her house and she was asked if she would be apologising and she said “No”.

She could be described as an ugly, fat talentless c*w but that’s just a joke!

I am very surprised that anybody could attempt to excuse her vile comments.

I had never heard that awful comment by Jo Brand, that is in my opinion totally unacceptable whoever and whatever her personal opinion is of a person, and she should be banned on tv and radio, making comments like that is a new low. I hope she is thoroughly ashamed of herself, truly a mother not to be proud of and not a person I will watch again.
Ann died a horrible death, I do hope she us with the God she beleived in.

Well yes she would have to.

Jo Brand did apologise.

It took me one search

to reveal:

"Yes, Jo Brand apologized for the joke, which was made during a June 2019 broadcast on BBC Radio 4's Heresy. In the segment, she suggested throwing battery acid instead of milkshakes at "unpleasant characters".

She formally apologized at the Henley Literary Festival, describing the remark as "crass and ill-judged".

And yes, Wyllow, what is considered to be edgy, changes over time.

I agree Primrose👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Once again, for your clear explanations,
thanks LemonJam. 👏

The BBC edited out Brand’s comment and said it went beyond what was acceptable but that was it. She said it was a joke so got away with it and refused to apologise.

So we can all say anything offensive is just a joke and avoid any trouble. After all “a comedian” is not a protected title. We can all be comedians 😉

Exactly- the job of comedians is to make jokes. The law recognises that and thats the reason the legal threshold is higher....

I like jokes that cause me a sharp intake of breath.
They're jokes; I'm old enough to know that, to my way of thinking.

Comedians in England can theoretically be investigated or charged under the Malicious Communications Act 1988 or Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003, but only if they cross a very high legal threshold. Merely saying something offensive on stage or online is not enough to constitute a criminal offence.

For an offensive joke to lead to a conviction, the prosecution must clear strict legal hurdles regarding intent, the delivery medium, and the severity of the content.

The Two Main Laws Implicated
The Malicious Communications Act 1988: This applies when someone sends a message (via letter, email, text, or social media) that is "grossly offensive" or indecent. Crucially, the prosecution must prove that the sender's specific purpose (or one of their purposes) was to cause distress or anxiety to the recipient.

Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003: This targets messages sent over a public electronic communications network (like X/Twitter or Facebook) that are "grossly offensive".

Why Comedians Are Generally Protected
The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) operates under strict legal guidelines designed to balance public safety with free speech:
The "Grossly Offensive" Threshold: The law sets the bar much higher than simple offence. Legal precedents state that content must be "beyond the pale" and go past being merely rude, shocking, or distasteful.

Lucy Connelly’s crime:Incitement to violence or racial hatred is public speech, writing, or conduct intended to provoke others to commit acts of violence, hostility, or discrimination against a specific racial, ethnic, or national group. Exactly as Lucy Connelly committed and admitted in court. HH’s social media comments do not appear to fall into this category of offence.

Key Legal Elements
Advocacy and Intention: The deliberate public promotion of hatred or enmity with the specific goal of stirring up animosity against a target group.
Threatening or Abusive Content: Using words, behaviour, or distributed material that is threatening, abusive, or insulting.
Imminent Risk: Speech that creates a clear and immediate danger or likelihood of violence, hostility, or unlawful discrimination.

Common Forms of Offences
Public Speeches: Making inflammatory verbal statements designed to provoke crowds against a minority group.
Distributing Material: Spreading racist or hateful texts, signs, or digital media to the general public.
Online Content: Creating websites, forums, or widespread social media posts that promote racial discontent or violence.




If HH had committed the offence in England the charge would more likely be for Malicious communications as it doesn't fit the above criminal offence. MC charges involve sending indecent, grossly offensive, threatening, or knowingly false messages via post, text, email, or social media with the intent to cause distress or anxiety. But HH lives in Scotland and an earlier poster suggested a Public Order type charge may be brought….

What Herbert said was absolutely vile; putrid, and as far as I'm concerned "male", but I'd agree that Jo Brand's was more likely to be incitement.
Herbert's couldn't have incited violence because it had already been done.

I would actually say Brands veered towards incitement more than Herbert's. Just to be clear I think Herbert is a vile misogynist, his behaviour generally ( not just this post) is deeply deeply worrying. I am defending the speech of a man I loathe because defending speech is important to me. At one time it would have been almost impossible for me to call him a man online, so yes free speech is important.
As I also keep repeating i am unsure of the charges against Herbert, we don't really know ( or probably want to know) what is going on with Herbert.

Thank you for your response, Galaxy.
Difficult to define offensive, but not impossible.
The two posts quoted are suggestions of extremely unpleasant actions to be taken against victims. Throwing a milkshake was not going to damage Farage, only his suit, but the 'suggestion' that it should be replaced by battery acid, from a woman with a large following, could incite a copycat attack using a dangerous substance.

The reference to Ann Widdecombe's manner of death by Heather Herbert does not warrant repetition, but again an extremely aggressive and violent suggestion that appeared on social media.
Neither of these comments could, or should, be classed as humour.
I would classify both examples as incitement to violence and deserving of punishment. A ban from social media perhaps.

Wasn’t it Corbyn who said Labour was offering “kinder, gentler politics”. What a load of tosh.

ReturningFromExile

By the way, what's wrong with the phrase 'Be kind'? I've seen it in our local hospital, asking patients and visitors to treat their staff with respect. The poster showed an Asian doctor.

There's nothing with the phrase per se. However, it often becomes a very 'one-way street'. Just to show one example, trans activists often exhort everyone to 'be kind' to them in one breath, while in the next, they are calling for all kinds of hideous fates to be meted out to anyone who dares to state the fact that a human being cannot change sex.

Be kind was an example of words that I find offensive as an example of why being offended isn't a good reason to punish people.

eazybee

My question was to Galaxy.
Something needs to be done, because comments are becoming increasingly offensive, and simply calling them edgy achieves nothing.

Sorry easybee I thought you meant me