Andy Burnham now officially Leader of Labour Party.

I got a notification from The Standard (fornerly the Evening Standard) which had picked up a rumour that the new PM may be considering reviewing the Personal Tax Allowance Threshold.

I hope so, but at this time there's rumours about everything.

Sorry but it is perfectly reasonable for people to express concerns about Burnhams ascent to power, it is not bitterness, it is a different perspective.
I think homelessness is a good first priority and it will be within his comfort zone.

Well said, Doodledog.

I listened to AB speech outside no 10 as it was broadcast in full on BBC Radio 4.

He's setting himself high ideals especially on homelessness. I think after what happened to Keir, he will be very aware the attacks to come, and what their nature will be, and be as effective as anyone could be against them. No gifts - no sudden early disastrous announcements like winter fuel.

A commentator said the difference would be - to give and example - for example that AB will take a much more lead from the front approach.

He will have learnt from the Mandelson business and the likes of Morgan McSweeney.

I dont expect he will manage to do all he wants to do because of funding - but maybe tomorrow will show us his fiscal policy.

I have some sympathy with those who vote Tory (less so with Reform voters, but let's not spilt hairs), as for most of my adult life there has been a government I didn't vote for, didn't want and didn't agree with. It's rubbish, but that's democracy.

There is no point in moaning about everything they do, though. Yes, when a government or PM ruins the area you live in by closing the industries that have sustained it for generations, lies to the queen, parties whilst punishing students for having snowball fights in contravention of government rules about mixing, spends billions on pointless PPE and so on people will complain, and rightly so. There is nothing wrong with criticising actions we dislike.

But looking for things to moan about, and inventing reasons why the new PM shouldn't be there, even though he has behaved no differently from three Tory PMs in the past decade or so is not helpful to anyone. As the saying goes - holding onto bitterness is like drinking poison and waiting for the enemy to die.

Gransnet was horrible after the GE a couple of years ago. I really hope we aren't going to revisit that shameful time.

Even the majority of those who reluctantly began to agree Keir should go will feel sad about this. I hope Andy Burnham can improve things and lift the gloom a bit

Calendargirl

Just looking at the latest with Keir Starmer leaving and Andy Burnham becoming PM, with the King.

Andy looks like the cat that’s swallowed the cream, the King looks a bit wary.

I think Keir had a very good working relationship with the King (along with many world leaders) and I’m pretty sure he will be sad to see him leave office.

4 hrs ago
AB is the seventh PM in a decade. Yet, he berates Thatcher who was PM for 11 years and actually got elected 3 times!; yet he himself hasn’t been elected by anyone except his own clique. And the folk in Makerfield.

Maisie

That is a really really really daft statement

Quoting international definitions is meaningless, David. I doubt if those who are in absolute, rather than relative, poverty are comforted by them.

OOPs, I hadn't seen MOnica's response.

I think she exaggerates, though; Starmer is perfectly safe

MaizieD

@Meandrogrog

You say

I would also not want to return to the poverty seen in the past but do feel that wealth is not wrong and needs to be taken off the wealthy. I thought the tax system already in place and the benefits system both seek to help those in need.

We currently have some 20% of the UK population living below the poverty line. That is one person in five.

What level would you consider to be a return to poverty seen in the past?

What makes you think the tax system seeks to help those in need when it so obviously skewed in favour of the rich?

Why should the rich pay less tax as a percentage of their income than do the poor?

The benefits system helps those in need and that is important to do so.

A lot of better off people have worked hard for their money, taken risks, worked all hours to establish a business etc.

I just think its unfair to take from them to hand to those who have not bothered.

What defines the poverty line? Is it those without the latest phone, nails, trainers etc? I genuinely see very few, if any, poverty stricken people on the streets.

Tuliptree

The defenestration of Prague 1618 A level history - never forgot the word.

Like many, I suppose, I've seen the actual window

I think though, that MOnica was alluding to the tendency of Putin's opponents to throw themselves out of upper storey windows with fatal results.

The Prague defenestratees survived...

Oh, dear!

Just looking at the latest with Keir Starmer leaving and Andy Burnham becoming PM, with the King.

Andy looks like the cat that’s swallowed the cream, the King looks a bit wary.

DaisyAnneReturns

M0nica

It all reads like the way many dictatorships manage the change at the top. Burnham's rapid rise to power and the way he effortlessly rose to power without opposition suggests deep planning and complicity within the bowels of the party.

If was Keir Starmer, I would just keep well away from open windows on the higher floors of buildings. Most coups in socialist dictatorships usually end with a defenestration.

If we've reached the point where internal party politics is apparently being compared to Stalinist purges, maybe we've lost a sense of proportion.

The UK is still a democracy. Party leaders can be challenged, MPs can remove leaders, and voters ultimately decide who governs. That's a world away from the kind of dictatorship you're describing.

DAR, it extends much further down the scale of dictators than Stalin. Its origins like back in history, in the 14th century, in Prague.

It is surprising how many Russian oligarchs have met unfortunate premature ends in Russia under Putin, Eastern European politicians in the days of the USSR were also prone to kill themselves by leaping or falling out of windows.

In more recent times the word 'defenestation' has been used to describe people in power suddenly being forced out of power. Sue Grey's sudden departure from Downing Street was described as a 'defestration' in the figurative rather than literal sense

The following somewhat philosophical discussion of defenestration in history and in its figurative sense makes interesting and thoughtful reading voxmeditantis.medium.com/the-windows-edge-a-historical-journey-through-defenestration-1108d2370789

I would still recommend that Starmer stays away from windows, swimming pools and balconies for the next year.

The defenestration of Prague 1618 A level history - never forgot the word.

David49

defenestration

A new word had to look that up.

Starmer recognized that he had not hot the backing of his own MPs, he stood aside with dignity for someone who hopefully has.

I think he would make an excellent Foreign Secretary although at present I expect him to stand back from any office. In future who knows if Burnham and Milliband can come back why not.

Am proud to say I knew what defenestration means 🤭 I heard the word in a radio play years ago, about a Russian politician who was shoved out of a high window.For some reason I didn’t forget it.

Depends where they read or hear about it. But why can’t the poster who first mentioned this give us the source?

Tuliptree

Oreo

The source for the heat pumps is the newspapers, turning down the heat at certain times rather than bigger bills I think.
Until Burnham actually makes new policies tho, it’s all unclear what will actually happen.

But it’s ok for posters to make things up in the meantime

Naturally anyone with a heat pump will be alarmed by what they read about it.

defenestration

A new word had to look that up.

Starmer recognized that he had not hot the backing of his own MPs, he stood aside with dignity for someone who hopefully has.

I think he would make an excellent Foreign Secretary although at present I expect him to stand back from any office. In future who knows if Burnham and Milliband can come back why not.

"We currently have some 20% of the UK population living below the poverty line. That is one person in five."

Maisie

That is a really really really daft statement

Poverty is defined internationally as a proportion of median wage or income.
While that definition remains there is always going to be 20% below that line because as income increases so will the poverty line.

We do need to increase income of the lowest paid, trying to change the poverty line is not going to achieve anything.

@Meandrogrog

You say

I would also not want to return to the poverty seen in the past but do feel that wealth is not wrong and needs to be taken off the wealthy. I thought the tax system already in place and the benefits system both seek to help those in need.

We currently have some 20% of the UK population living below the poverty line. That is one person in five.

What level would you consider to be a return to poverty seen in the past?

What makes you think the tax system seeks to help those in need when it so obviously skewed in favour of the rich?

Why should the rich pay less tax as a percentage of their income than do the poor?

M0nica

It all reads like the way many dictatorships manage the change at the top. Burnham's rapid rise to power and the way he effortlessly rose to power without opposition suggests deep planning and complicity within the bowels of the party.

If was Keir Starmer, I would just keep well away from open windows on the higher floors of buildings. Most coups in socialist dictatorships usually end with a defenestration.

If we've reached the point where internal party politics is apparently being compared to Stalinist purges, maybe we've lost a sense of proportion.

The UK is still a democracy. Party leaders can be challenged, MPs can remove leaders, and voters ultimately decide who governs. That's a world away from the kind of dictatorship you're describing.

It's going to be a very interesting day we will probably see the main new cabinet announced, with Mahmoud tipped as likely chancellor which meets my approval, where will he park Milliband and who will be deputy PM

Oreo

The source for the heat pumps is the newspapers, turning down the heat at certain times rather than bigger bills I think.
Until Burnham actually makes new policies tho, it’s all unclear what will actually happen.

But it’s ok for posters to make things up in the meantime

Wyllow3

The care system, the NHS, climate change, schools....prisons adequate......

Benefits, foreign aid, illegal immigrants………