Big pronouncements

I think it is a good first target but I am worried about announcements that are going to be easily shown not to be true. I didnt for example believe for one moment believe starmer was going to halve violence against women and girls.

Finland was the first but the policy now applies virtually throughout Scandinavia.

I think the character of urban conglomerations is pretty much the same for us as for Scandi and they have made it work.

But I think the key difference is that when they get people off the street and into the flats they have the support services (health, mental health, addiction) to back it up and we do not. Which brings me back to the idea that this is where the government needs to start. Some rough sleepers have just fallen on hard times but most are addicts or mentally ill.

NotSpaghetti

I think it was Finland, rather than Norway, Whitewavemark - re housing schemes

Probably both then, as I’ve just come back from Norway and learned this after a conversation with a Norwegian journalist.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

The current population of Norway is approximately 5.67 million people. This places Norway 119th among countries globally, with a very low population density of just 15 people per square km.

Apples and pears comes to mind….

So how would you prefer to see homelessness tackled, FGT?

GG13 says with regard disagreement over a funding source, Someone has got it wrong

The real problem is that when the whole of the government message about how it is spending money into the economy is based on a the household economy myth so the whole of government accounting for spending has to conform to the myth.

Basically, it’s all wrong 😆

Government can spend whatever it needs to so long as it has the resources available to be purchased and that it is spending to benefit the whole nation (no knocking down part of No. 10 to make room for a ballroom please)

The problem is GG that whilst I agree the country could well do without that , the majority of the media ( of all types) will be pulling every last thing apart generally based on deliberate misinformation and misinterpretation.

I understand the minutiae of the arguments being put forward, but I think to a degree we are missing the point here.

The people Burnham is addressing are those folk whose interest in the nitty gritty of the economy and politics is virtually nil, but they are interested in headlines like VAT reduced to zero on electricity bills and ending rough sleeping.

What Burnham has to do now is ensure that these people’s lives are actually improved.

That will be an uphill struggle

I think it was Finland, rather than Norway, Whitewavemark - re housing schemes

The current population of Norway is approximately 5.67 million people. This places Norway 119th among countries globally, with a very low population density of just 15 people per square km.

Apples and pears comes to mind….

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2

The ID programme was going to cost over £1.8bn over the next 3 years.

Someone has got it wrong

As the OBR and Darren Jones are saying that the digital ID scheme was unfunded.

The 5% VAT saving is according to Martin Lewis to be approximately £40-45 per year per household.

Already scrapping between the last cohort and this cohort, not a great start.

I hope the pettiness stops PDQ

I hope it stops quickly too. Let's all give him a chance, eh?

Whitewavemark2

gg13 you clearly don’t want to enter the spirit of pulling together😄😄😄

I most definitely do.

Hence my final sentence I hope the pettiness stops PDQ

The last thing the U.K. needs is an ongoing war of attrition between Starmer’s old cohort and Burnham’s new one.

As for the costing or otherwise of the VAT cut, I guess MaisieD could explain whether that’s actually an issue at all.

Luckygirl3

On rough sleeping Scandinavian countries have a different approach, summed up: The Underlying Philosophy: It is virtually impossible to recover from trauma, mental health issues, or addiction while fighting to survive on the streets. A stable home provides the necessary foundation for all other rehabilitation.

Hostels were turned into flats and new flats built. Being on the streets and homeless is a passport to a flat with intensive rehab input.

All sounds piece in the sky but apparently most Scandi countries have virtually eliminated rough sleeping.

That's pretty much what I suggested upthread, but I was told that putting addicts together would create centres of drug abuse.

Whitewavemark2

The ID programme was going to cost over £1.8bn over the next 3 years.

Yes but hadn't been budgeted for as yet so just stopping a drain doesn't free up the money that didn't exist.

MaizieD

Whitewavemark2

Electricity - a renewable fuel. . Gas not mentioned, which is a fossil fuel.

Thats not strictly accurate, though. Electricity does use some fossil fuel for its production, it even still uses gas, though I understand that the use of gas is something of a fallback position when renewables produce less.

There are two problems related to this, firstly that electricity is currently priced on the cost of producing it by gas, which is both far more expensive than renewables and not a major producer. It is argued that the pricing of our electricity should change to reflect this.

Secondly, there are potential major renewables suppliers which cannot yet be connected to the national grid. The grid needs urgent attention and investment. It’s all very well pushing renewables but the infrastructure needs to be in place, too.

But the general population won’t see the niceties of that will they?

They will simply see that their bills are being reduced, and Burnham will have achieved his aim.

Whitewavemark2

He has begun with VAT on domestic fuel bills

No VAT on domestic fuel.

True but it's only at 5% in the first place.
I do see that every bit will help but it's very little - maybe £45 a year?

Better to uncouple gas and electric in my opinion.

Cutting VAT on business gas and electricity would be a 20% cut for most.

Re the scrapping GG. I feel disappointed but not surprised although I’d expected better from Darren Jones. I suppose what’s so dispiriting is that I’d ( naively) hope he cared enough about the country to just button it. I can understand RR refusing a job, I can understand a bit of ill feeling and sulking but coming in like that this morning is unacceptable.

Whitewavemark2

Electricity - a renewable fuel. . Gas not mentioned, which is a fossil fuel.

Thats not strictly accurate, though. Electricity does use some fossil fuel for its production, it even still uses gas, though I understand that the use of gas is something of a fallback position when renewables produce less.

There are two problems related to this, firstly that electricity is currently priced on the cost of producing it by gas, which is both far more expensive than renewables and not a major producer. It is argued that the pricing of our electricity should change to reflect this.

Secondly, there are potential major renewables suppliers which cannot yet be connected to the national grid. The grid needs urgent attention and investment. It’s all very well pushing renewables but the infrastructure needs to be in place, too.

gg13 you clearly don’t want to enter the spirit of pulling together😄😄😄

The explanation regarding the rough sleepers is that Burnham allotted 600 spaces for rough sleepers in Manchester, which given the fact (shelter) that there are roughly 5000 rough sleepers in the whole country should have been more than sufficient.

There are a couple of explanations for the rise.

The first is that the economy has not been kind to the working or middle classes for that matter.

The second which is more likely is that this sort of scheme has not been set up by communities surrounding Manchester, and so the possibility of a bed for the night attracted rough sleepers from communities outside of Manchester.

Burnham’s argument is that if the country as a who,e pulls together, this problem can go a long way to bring resolved. Norway set up a similar scheme and as a consequence there are no people sleeping rough on their streets"

Whitewavemark2

The ID programme was going to cost over £1.8bn over the next 3 years.

Someone has got it wrong

As the OBR and Darren Jones are saying that the digital ID scheme was unfunded.

The 5% VAT saving is according to Martin Lewis to be approximately £40-45 per year per household.

Already scrapping between the last cohort and this cohort, not a great start.

I hope the pettiness stops PDQ

A difficult problem with no easy fixes.
And more people moved into the area of 5million people - a population the size of Scotland!

From Wiki:

Yes, homelessness has increased significantly in Manchester. Data from Shelter shows that 1 in every 61 people in the city-council area is homeless, which is one of the highest rates in the UK.The rise is driven by two main factors:Temporary Accommodation: Over 9,500 people in the Manchester area are currently without a permanent home, including thousands of children housed in temporary or emergency accommodation.Rough Sleeping: The number of people sleeping on the streets has risen for consecutive years. In Greater Manchester, the official annual snapshot count of rough sleepers rose to 197, more than doubling from the low of 89 recorded in 2021.Local authorities attribute this upward trend to the freezing of Local Housing Allowance rates, increased Section 21 "no-fault" evictions, and pressures on the asylum housing system. To combat the crisis, Greater Manchester continues to operate the A Bed Every Night (ABEN) scheme, which provides hundreds of emergency bed spaces across the region.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

I live in Gtr Manchester. My postal voting card arrived on Saturday for the Mayoral contest here.

Just to clarify: Homelessness actually ROSE during AB’s tenure. Check it out.

That was just pointed out on the Breakfast News.

I live in Gtr Manchester. My postal voting card arrived on Saturday for the Mayoral contest here.

Just to clarify: Homelessness actually ROSE during AB’s tenure. Check it out.