Big pronouncements

The ID programme was going to cost over £1.8bn over the next 3 years.

Graphite you probably know this but there are some mortgages now that will accept proof of rent paid when doing affordability checks.

Some at minimum or even 0% deposits.

Whitewavemark2

Costed - from savings on cancellation of ID programme.

Darren Jones has come out and said that the voluntary digital ID scheme had not been fully costed and that there had been no money allocated to pay for it.

He went on to ask AB where the money was actually coming from.

Source ITV Breakfast News

Pie, not piece

On rough sleeping Scandinavian countries have a different approach, summed up: The Underlying Philosophy: It is virtually impossible to recover from trauma, mental health issues, or addiction while fighting to survive on the streets. A stable home provides the necessary foundation for all other rehabilitation.

Hostels were turned into flats and new flats built. Being on the streets and homeless is a passport to a flat with intensive rehab input.

All sounds piece in the sky but apparently most Scandi countries have virtually eliminated rough sleeping.

One priority should be to reverse Rachel from Accounts dreadful "jobs tax" which was one of the biggest own goals of the last regime. And the tax allowances need to be unfrozen too as a matter of urgency.

Costed - from savings on cancellation of ID programme.

Electricity - a renewable fuel. . Gas not mentioned, which is a fossil fuel.

He has begun with VAT on domestic fuel bills

No VAT on domestic fuel.

I thought Andy Burnham was digging a hole for himself when he said he will bring about the biggest changes for 40 years. Quite a claim. We shall see.

I think I need something a bit more detailed than that because it seemed a bit glib - no offence meant.

All money is just a promise. I mean I might have a suitcase full of £20 notes but they aren’t really worth anything in themselves,

So the savings you want to use aren’t real either. They are just a promise too but one that has already been pledged.

Isn’t that how Northern Rock went to the wall? They borrowed and lent and then couldn’t repay because the money was pledged out to house buyers and they couldn’t recover straightaway when demanded?
The Treasury had to step in and make the money. The Building Society couldn’t just do it.

I admit my view is simplistic. Dear me, I was going to put a lighthearted remark about being happy with the weekly wage in the cocoa tins but you never know what’s going to cause offence nowadays. 🤔 Even an emoji.

I am genuinely interested.

Money isn’t just “sitting in savings”.

What you think happens when some one wants to get access to their savings or cash in their bonds?

Richard Murphy explains the common misconception that banks are lending savers' money.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2023/06/21/banks-do-not-lend-savers-money/#gsc.tab=0

At least our assorted PM's don't make a laughing stock of themselves like a certain President, roaring about everything being "fake" if journalists won't toe the line, don't publicly ridicule another country's leader for not wearing a suit and no PM has openly declared they were glad when an opposition politician died.

And, as far as I know, our Prime Ministers aren't inclined to nod off and have to be discreetly nudged awake by their minders.

(And why does Mr Trump resort to apparently playing an invisible concertina whenever he delivers a speech?)

With our Ange in charge of housing what could go wrong?

Money isn’t just “sitting in savings”.

It’s lent out surely. My savings are in a Building Society that lends money to buy houses. It’s not just sitting around in their vaults.

And Premium Bond money is used to fund Government capital projects. That what it says on the website anyway. There isn’t actually any money there at all!

Just to be clear I’m 100% in favour of more real Social housing - council houses in old terms. I’d be very happy for that to be a priority of Premium Bond usage.

I don't think that we should give up though. I appreciate that a lot of rough sleepers are addicts, but not all - some, particularly single men, have fallen on hard times and if they have no children (and, ironically, no MH problems) go to the bottom of the lists.

Such a man called Storm and Alexis (TV phone in) this morning, and I really felt for him. He has worked since leaving school at 16 (I think he said he is now 41) and has lost his job through redundancy. As he is single, childless and has no 'issues' he's been told h doesn't qualify for help. People like him need help too.

I've never worked in housing, and clearly I don't have the answers, but I am confident that there are those who do, and with the right support we should be able to return to the days when we didn't see people in doorways in cities. We won't eradicate addiction (which is not to say we shouldn't try), but losing a job shouldn't mean people having to sleep on the streets.

The problem with hostels is that bring together a group of people with similar problems and become centres of drug trade.

I have an addicted young relative who, every time he leaves prison is sent to a hostel where things just get worse and he is led back into trouble.

People are not on the street by choice - they are there because of addiction and mental health problems and it is those services that need dealing with.

Cossy

Doodledog

Not easy when you are facing a wall of journalists and photographers, all wanting something to report about you and discuss. If you mutter something about slog and doing your best you risk losing the audience, which can do terminal damage, as we saw with Starmer.

Incidentally, I think that rough sleeping is a good target for day one. It is measurable, so he can point to how successful he's been. It is possible, as we saw during Covid. It will make people feel better about their environment when they aren't walking past people sleeping in doorways on their way to work. I hope he pulls it off of its own sake, but I also think the choice of announcement show more political nous than we've seen for a while.

We managed in Covid because many rough sleepers were placed in B&Bs, not sustainable housing. Simply “housing” them isn’t the answer.

In my part of Essex we have many rough sleepers and good resources, but it’s still not enough.

Almost every week planning is denied for conversions of houses into HMOs to house people. Every week planning is denied for new homes.

Rough sleepers often have many other issues, including addiction. If no services for this are offered m, housing will be lost pretty quickly.

Rough sleepers aren’t the only “homeless”. Many many families are living in substandard and inadequate temporary housing.

Good points. Bringing Covid into it was simplistic. All the same, it shouldn't be impossible to build hostels and flats as a matter of urgency, and people with addiction issues could be referred to the hostels for help before moving into the flats. Even if the tenancies were temporary (say three years) it would give them a chance to get on their feet before finding something on the market.

Meanwhile, a push to build more social housing would help older people and young families who struggle with private renting. As others have said, it would also provide employment, and create more settled communities, which help people to feel part of society. Maybe that's too tall an order, but I am trying very hard to remain positive today.

MT 62 I said the amount of rough sleepers had come down not that they had been eradicated completely. The figures are on BBC verify.

Graphite

I hope we can welcome this premiership with far less negativity than we saw on this platform two years ago.

I posted on the other thread about how I welcomed the promise to end rough sleeping and to build more council homes. Everybody deserves a roof over their head. Do that and all else follows, domestically at least.

I do know that there is money sitting in savings that could be directed towards social projects. Over £800 billion is sitting in ISAs and around £140 billion in Premium Bonds.

If the government were to invite people to put money into a social housing bond paying a moderate return, I’d certainly invest.

Also as I have written about before, there are a million homes in England alone sitting long term empty (Action on Empty Homes) These need to be brought into use.

We can provide an affordable home for everybody.

We need legislation to stop developers hoarding land to deliberately control the supply of new homes and keep prices high.

We need more apprentice schemes for young people to train them in the necessary skills to build and renovate homes.

We need a cap on private rents. I was struck by this young man’s post on another social media platform:

My bank tells me I cannot afford £800 a month to pay a mortgage to buy a flat. But apparently I can afford £1,200 a month to pay my landlord’s mortgage.

This needs to stop.

I think your idea about government bonds, available to ordinary citizens is a very good one Graphite. There is certainly, as you say, plenty of money sitting in savings and premium bonds which could be put into bonds linked to investment in social care care and public infrastructure for example, and readily available to ordinary citizens through retail outlets.
Government Bonds are always a safe home for money, and the government could definitely manage the bond market differently which is at present open mainly to large institutions and speculators.

AGAA4

Andy Burnham has brought down the number of rough sleepers in Manchester. Unfortunately rising again but still not as many as before he became mayor.
I agree on rents. The prices are far too high in the UK. Most young people have no chance of buying and not much better chance of renting.

Burnham has to give people some hope or things will not go well for him.

Really? I didn’t see much evidence last time I went there. That Piccadilly gardens was a disgrace. I’ve told my mum to keep away from that area.

MayBee70

“Rough sleepers often have many other issues, including addiction. If no services for this are offered m, housing will be lost pretty quickly”.
Precisely. I was just about to say the same thing. There’s also the problem of prisoners leaving prison with nowhere to go.

Absolutely, especially those who get those first few weeks in Bail Hostels and zero help from overworked, partially privatised probation services.

MayBee70

You’re so right!

“Rough sleepers often have many other issues, including addiction. If no services for this are offered m, housing will be lost pretty quickly”.
Precisely. I was just about to say the same thing. There’s also the problem of prisoners leaving prison with nowhere to go.

Sorry - I started replying to Graphite's post and got distracted. Things had moved on before I pressed 'send'.