How will the VAT cut be funded?

Don’t forget it was Starmer who brought in the cap of £3. Is Burnham trying to steal a march on him at the same time?

Whitewavemark2

Most bus fares to be capped at £2.

Still going in the right direction of travel😊

I like what you did there 😁

The likes of Putin do all they can to encourage us to snipe at our government- via SM and chatbots & any other influence they can devise.

Thanks for the immigration figures Casdon, those are really very encouraging. Do we even need Shabana's new legislation with everything trending down like that?

My home village in Cornwall, had regular bus services which served the community throughout my childhood, but then Thatcher (no such thing as society) stopped the funding and although a privatised service was initially run, it simply couldn’t make it pay, so eventually the village was left without any bus service at all.

People had to rely on neighbours for lifts - so it is entirely unsatisfactory.

Getting to work - especially the young must be almost impossible and a real pain. School holidays and taking the children to the beach etc must also be difficult. Joining in community festivities in other villages another difficulty.

The loss of local bus services goes back to the 1970s at least and is partly related to the loss of subsidy by local authorities. It used to be accepted that rural services would run at a loss but were a public service. Alas, local authority budgets have been slashed and slashed.

I think you'll find it went back to the 1980s, rather than the '70s when Thatcher privatised everything she possibly could.

A lot of local bus services were actually run and funded by LAs as well as the 'National' bus service, a state utility.

Where I lived as a child we had the Corporation buses, National buses and some small local companies on the rural routes.

Interesting, though. Did the growth of car ownership kill the rural services or was it the privatisation of all bus services, which led initially to competition on rural routes, making them unprofitable for multiple operators having to 'share' custom so they all gave up, which led to growth of car ownership?

The loss of local bus services goes back to the 1970s at least and is partly related to the loss of subsidy by local authorities. It used to be accepted that rural services would run at a loss but were a public service. Alas, local authority budgets have been slashed and slashed.

Side by side with this is the growth of private car ownership which has expanded from 3.5 million in 1970 to a record 36.7 million today. The proportion of households with one car has remained steady at around 44% since the early 1970s while the number of homes with two or more vehicles has risen from 8% in 1971 to over one-third of all households.

Add to this the privatisation of the railways and the extortionate cost therefore of a rail journey and the power of the car lobby to push for the building of more and more roads, it's a wonder anyone can afford to go anywhere on a low income.

Last point as someone who has always cycled but been fortunate to live somewhere where cycling infrastructure is supported, cycling is cheap and good for health. I don't understand the UK knee-jerk hostility against cyclists, where cities have devoted space to pedestrians and cyclists, the shops have been as full as before, the air is less polluted and traffic noise is reduced for the benefit of wildlife and people.

tattygran14

He doesn’t know.

How do you know?

Sam Freedman has worked in government and is a highly respected commentator and analyst. I don't always go along with him but this series of comments on Bluesky today is very good.

Sam Freedman
@samfr.bsky.social
· 1d
It's driving me insane. The govt spends £1.4 trillion a year. Borrowing estimates are often by tens of billions over a year. But we're supposed to imagine money is budgeted to the last penny.

Like sure point out that lots of spending promises and no new taxes will likely lead to more borrowing than expected. But the false precision is so misleading.

This is the equivalent of asking how a £1.5m turnover company is going to pay for £100 of drinks at the Xmas party.

bsky.app/profile/samfr.bsky.social/post/3mretxzbm4k2z

GrannyGravy13

The Telegraph is reporting that AB is suspending all early releases, pending review.

Oops wrong thread 🤦‍♀️

The Telegraph is reporting that AB is suspending all early releases, pending review.

tattygran14

He doesn’t know.

?

He doesn’t know.

DaisyAnneReturns

LemonJam

AB has only been in the job for a couple of days! His new to post cabinet minsters just coming to terms with their briefs. I sense huge impatience in the air- but I guess that was always going to be the case.

I wouldn't expect all funding streams to be spelt out in fine detail at this stage. Some posters are happy not knowing where funding is coming from, some happy to wait for a more detailed budget statement and some that are going to be impatient with the new LP leader and announcements anyway.

AB is seasoned and experienced and will no doubt steer his course and his cabinet's course, in a planned way and in a realistic, step by step timescale.

Looking at the UK, it isn't a democracy that only demands instant gratification. However, modern media, political incentives, and cultural expectations have increased pressure on governments to produce rapid, visible results.

It makes sustained, long-term policymaking more difficult, even when it would ultimately benefit the country and I'm not sure how you change the current culture.

I agree DAR. Yet it's sustained, incremental, long-term policymaking that the country badly needs whether it's willing to be patient or not, trusting or not, hopeful or not. The reality AB is the leader of the party that won the country's mandate to govern for 5 yer period- three more to run.

AB's only course of action I would suggest is to steer his cabinet and his incremental long term plans forward regardless of impatience and modern media noise. He can do little to change that in the immediate or short term, particularly with imminent summer recess.

AB has shown in Manchester he's fairly adept at media management. It will be much more difficult as PM on a wider scale admittedly- but his only option is to plough on. Aside from minsters and other allies that may have lost their roles in AB's cabinet reshuffle and bitterness from a few- AB has enormous support from his MPs. Thats a good start for him in his hugely challenging new job.

eazybee

Do you mean 'I am not sure you need the OP's sneer at "experts", ?
Your original sentence does not make sense otherwise.

🤣🤣🤣

Do you mean 'I am not sure you need the OP's sneer at "experts", ?
Your original sentence does not make sense otherwise.

DaisyAnneReturns

Thank you everyone for so many well informed answers. I'm not sure you need the OPs sneered at "experts" when we have this quality of research!

Aspirations are often quoted by politicians - even those the OP might support. I would hate to find we had a party in power which didn't have any aspirations for those worst off in society.

Tongue in cheek?

It is very easy to look up this information.

To help with the cost of living crisis, on 3 September 2022 the previous government announced a £2 cap on most single bus fares outside London.

It started from 1 January 2023 and was due to run for just three month until 31 March 2023. That was estimated to cost £60 million.

www.gov.uk/government/speeches/transport-update-2-bus-fare-cap-on-a-single-bus-ticket

On 31 May 2023 it was announced that it would be extended to 31 October 2023 and then £2.50 until the end of 2024. That was estimated to cost £200 million.

www.gov.uk/government/news/government-extends-2-bus-fare-cap-and-protects-vital-services

On 28 October 2024 the new government announced the cap from 1 January 2025 would be £3. That was estimated to cost £150 million.

www.gov.uk/government/news/over-1-billion-to-boost-bus-services-across-the-country-as-bus-fares-capped-at-3

Fare cap extension comes on top of nearly £925 million invested to deliver high quality services and protect vital bus routes up and down the country.

Under the inherited plans, funding for the current capon bus fares had been due to expire at the end of 2024, withfares set to soar by as much as £13 for the Leeds to Scarborough route, unless the government intervened to keep fares down.

www.gov.uk/government/news/over-1-billion-to-boost-bus-services-across-the-country-as-bus-fares-capped-at-3

From March 2020 to the end of its term, the previous government invested £3.5 billion in bus networks. Labour have already invested over a billion since coming to power.

The first subsidy was funded by the massive increase in VAT revenue from petrol price hikes, so when fuel prices went down there was less in the pot. Now prices have hiked again, this can be funded

I don’t agree that ‘we know’ about governments being able to create money.

My understanding is that this is a point of view- much as needing to know whether funding is readily identifiable before ambitions can be declared is a perspective, rather than a requirement.

Yes, I ‘knew’ that the change from £2 to £3 happened under KS’s leadership (as did you), but as I say, my point about the sniping and attempts at point scoring stand.

Doodledog

Ah, well that will have made the point you were hoping to make, won't it?

My point still stands though.

You mean you didn’t know either?

Now we know that the government can create whatever money it needs , I’m surprised that it was necessary for the LP to up the cost.

Ah, well that will have made the point you were hoping to make, won't it?

My point still stands though.

It’s OK. I asked DH and he said KS changed it to £3 in October 2024.

Mollygo

The bus fares near us used to be capped at £2. Who changed it to £3?

I think the £2 initiative came to an end, and the need to let people know about costings meant that it went up to £3.

£3 was less than half of what I used to pay to get to work, even with a weekly ticket, so it was still a bargain for many. Less so for me, as I got a bus pass just as the fares got cheaper😂. Story of my life, really.

In the Lake District there are several villages that no longer have bus services. So getting to a dentist, doctor, supermarket or work relies on access to, and the ability to drive a car. not only that, but tourism relies on people from other areas and countries getting area tickets to get around, and that is very much curtailed these days.

One of the reasons for this is that so many houses have been bought to rent out as holiday lets, and the people renting them have cars, so locals are thinner on the ground. As a result, the buses are not supported as they used to be, and as a result of that many older or less well-off people have moved away, and the communities have died. Wages have always been low, as the area has heavily reliant on tourism.

Consequently, hospitality is struggling, colleges and employers on industrial estates struggle as people can't access them easily, and so on.

It's not just NI and minimum wage hikes that get in the way of economic growth - things like transport play a role, too.

I have long felt that if public transport were free, reliable, clean and safe across the country, the investment would be repaid in no time.

The bus fares near us used to be capped at £2. Who changed it to £3?