Burnham to tell schools in England to adapt teaching to local business needs- what do you think?

The purpose of parenting and education is to bring up our children to be able to earn a living and play a useful part in society. Humanity's continued existence has depended on its ability to provide itself with the food, shelter, clothes and warmth it needs to stop it dying out. The fact that the majority of us work in jobs and industries that could not be further separated from agriculture does not undermine that basic connection between our need to work to justify our place in life.

Countries like Germany, France, Holland, Denmark all have system of technical schools integrated with the secondary school system and also have dedicated technical universities, counted as among the most prestigious in their countries. We have Imperial College - and that is it, Even at Imperial College less than 40% of all students are British. Over 60% are overseas students.

There has been a peculiar snobbishness in Britain for the last 200 years about anyone who gets their hands dirty making or doing anything technical, and professional engineers are rated as much further down the social scale than lawyers or accountants.

DH is a Chartered Engineer. When working in any European country his business card describes him as 'Eur Ing', much as anyone might have 'doctor; or 'Professor' on their card in the UK. In the UK no such title exists

Some years ago i was sorting out insurance for our car, I was asked what my DH's occupation was. When I said 'Chartered Engineer the person behind the counter, looked at me anxiously and said 'Does that mean he works in a garage?'

If we want better technical education and at all levels, we must start treating engineers with the respect they get elsewhere in the world.

The Uk government has always told/ imposed/ directed state funded schools what to teach via the National Curriculum- but feel free to change ‘tell’ to another adjective you prefer. All government plans are discussed at cabinet level, with key stakeholders and in parliament. I’ve heard nothing to suggest this is going to change. AB seeks to discuss Social Care plans cross party- let’s hope other parties are willing to work collaboratively on such an important issue.

From what I’ve read so far the AB does wish to do this countrywide- do you have information that this will not be a country wide plan eazybee? It cannot be argued that different parts of the country may have different/ varying employment needs so the proposed local working and devolution for that aspect seems to be pragmatic.

No one has suggested the Education Secretary will not be involved in Educational plans….

Something certainly needs to be done to get pupils to realise they have to work for their living and offering them job opportunities with proper training is a practical start.

Andy Burnham will tell ?? (I think he means discuss and listen to the experience and ideas of schools and industries )and will be pleasantly surprised to learn that this is an area they care very much about and actually have put into practice for many years, but unable to do on a wide enough scale. It needs to operate across Britain, not just to satisfy local needs, a very Victorian idea. I thought North and South was his favourite novel.
Certainly move from a purely academic curriculum to give pupils skills and education suitable for business and industry,
Sad that so many technical colleges were wasted by being turned into poor universities, but academic snobbery will resurface if students do not have educational qualifications that are universally recognised and respected.
And as for telling schools; this needs to be discussed in Parliament first, not imposed because he thinks it is a good idea. And he needs to look at his Education Secretary and her ideas about 'creativity'.

Lemon Jam I see that you appreciate the huge amount of work and effort staff have to put in to make these new courses work . It means contact with industry leading to offers of participation in the scheme. It is not easy as it costs the industries time and money and some are reluctant or cannot afford it.

I too think that it sounds great in theory, and I sincerely hope that it is doable.

I also really hope that the political opposition do not mock this type of initiative for purely political reasons, as the future of so many young people is at stake here, and they desparately need to feel that there might be a positive path through education that could give them a great start in their working/ adult life.

Back in the day, and apology if I get the terms wrong, it's been a while, but Special Needs provision did use suitably trained tradespeople to teach technical subjects.

I don't think the plan is to disrupt T levels progress to date which on the other thread you indicated around 361 schools across the country offer.

AB only introduced his vision for the Manchester Baccalaureate a couple of years ago and it has reached significant reach already- engaging 101 schools in the area and securing 1,100 T levels placement pledges from local employers helping more than 11,000 young people onto technical career pathways. Greater Manchester now has 101 schools of the 361 England schools offering T levels as I understand it. To expand this in the same way across the country would be a positive thing. I think he wants to go wider than T levels also- but waiting to see more detail.

It needs to be something that will be valued by industry and commerce.
Not every student wishes to take the academic route.
Hope it works.
Yes Labradora, the courses must be such that they elicit respect.

I think Pippa has hit it on the head. Teachers need support, training . I have already mentioned T levels which are offered by 365 schools and are proving popular with pupils. For those , who haven't heard of them they are equivalent to 3 A levels
combine practical and theoretical learning with an industry placement .
In the past there have been courses instead of GCSE. Do any of you remember City and Guilds , BTEC , NVQs, CSE ?All involving vast amounts of work by schools and upset when they were deemed to be a waste of time.

Truly believe Education needs to have at least some focus on Real Life. And truly believe it would engage young people. Not suggesting we throw the baby out with the bath (thinking Shakespeare, Chaucer, Algebra here) but young people need to learn about Interest Rates, mortgages, how Scammers exploit, how to deal with GP’s, Employment Rights (& Tribunals), the impact of prison and Community sentencing.

I’m not an ex teacher, but these issues relate to real life and I’d hope young people would find them much more relatable

To some extent, but there aren’t as many jobs as there are young people, and the jobs that there are, are almost all tradesmen, farming etc. The academic children do have to leave to follow a career.

Calendargirl

In theory, it sounds good.

We need to teach youngsters how to earn a living, often in practical subjects.

Sounds like technical colleges, back in the 60’s.

Indeed.
Didn't we have Apprenticeships and Technical Colleges in the old days ?
Equal respect for non-academic qualifications should always have been there.
Not everyone can be academic in their "work" sphere. The country needs plumbers, electricians, builders, gas specialists, gardeners.
More enlightened cultures not only respect both pathways but also acknowledge that your electrician may well be intellectually smart and just as interested in and appreciative of cultural matters as the more " academic" members of society.

Casdon

As an approach it makes sense for industrialised areas, but I wonder how it will work in rural communities, where local job opportunities are a lot more limited.

Maybe agricultural schemes, or even keeping artisan crafts alive like thatching, blacksmiths (who do far more than shoe horses) etc.

Sounds like a very good idea, providing teachers are given support/training to implement the recommendations, and potential employers are on board. . People need to recognise that there can be other choices besides university, which does not suit everyone. I look forward to seeing if Wales has a similar proposal, not that I'm going to hold my breath on that.

As an approach it makes sense for industrialised areas, but I wonder how it will work in rural communities, where local job opportunities are a lot more limited.

A Herculean task, I hope he succeeds in this vision for our younger generations sake.

I don't doubt it is a huge task, complex and will need incremental implantation phases over several years.

2 years ago AB introduced his vision and plans for the Manchester Baccalaureate or MBacc. Now he wants to take the same visit nationally and give pupils the opportunity to study more vocational courses and work with other regional Mayors.

BBC News website running an interesting article- Can Burnham's vision for Manchester's schools really work for the rest of England?

In theory, it sounds good.

We need to teach youngsters how to earn a living, often in practical subjects.

Sounds like technical colleges, back in the 60’s.

It is a really refreshing concept for education in England. I've long thought that success shouldn't be based totally on academic achievement and qualifications, and that our country fell way behind others on training for jobs.
It's 10/10 from me.