Today the High Court has agreed that children can be given puberty blockers.

Galaxy

I don't know. I don't know how it is going to end really. They have just announced the first centre for detransitioners in the states. What a mess this all is.

And there are an increasing number of records of children suing their parents or the doctors who caused the harm or allowed the harm to happen.

People with a purely physical illness often speak of the relief of getting a diagnosis. And the even greater relief of being told there is a drug that can fix the problem. You can’t wait to take that first pill.

Of course a young person, feeling they don’t fit in somehow with their peers, is going to feel relief when they’re told that the problem is smple, they are in the wrong body and that can be fixed. Just take the medication.

A painkiller prescription without ever trying to diagnose the cause of the pain.🙄🙁

I don't know. I don't know how it is going to end really. They have just announced the first centre for detransitioners in the states. What a mess this all is.

www.thetimes.com/article/60b9377e-aeba-4e02-9244-dc49098eab5a?shareToken=879697222a082259a21ab3ead7c4d33d&ver=article

This is interesting. A number of transitioned people are suing the medical/surgical services for negligence on the grounds that their psychological/mental health problem were insufficiently taken into account when advising and administering treatment.

I wonder where children might stand over this if their parents decide for them that puberty blockers are the route to choose in this trial.

The rationale seems to be that you delay puberty so that the child can have time to decide what they want before irreversible changes have taken place, especially in boys where the jawline and feet/hands etc. grow at speed.

Girls can, as did my GC, take the pill to stop their periods, but they did not take puberty blockers as such.

But in the process you have to give children drugs when you do not know the long term effects or potential harm.

The crux of the problem is that children are too young to know their own minds or to understand some of the politically strident lobbying on the subject - for many, especially with ASD, they are simply looking for a peg to hang their discomfort on, or a means of having a tribe.

Psychological support rather than experimental drugs is the answer. Although the reality is that the support is often needed for those who transition too.

Will A.I., gone rogue, destroy us all long before climate change or a pandemic could? I would love to hear other opinions on this.

Puberty blocking makes no sense to me, as puberty is the process which can sort out the confusion! As a young girl, I was desperate to be a boy. Thank goodness there were no interventions back then. Puberty straightened me out.

But this is about something that is given to children, not about trans people per se.Maybe another thread about trans people might be more appropriate? I really don’t understand why anyone, anywhere would support this sort of experimentation ( unless they just like to argue for argument sake )

There are a lot worse things on earth than trans people.
That is of course true.
But the issue here is children. And testing drugs on children.

Plevey08

I almost put it in the same bracket as FGM. They certainly need long term psychological support until they reach adulthood, and can make a mature and reasoned choice.

I completely agree.

They need to wait until puberty is complete AND their emotional development has caught up. I’d say for the majority of people this isn’t even at age 18, but much later into their 20’s.

It’s a terribly sad state of affairs though for both these children and their parents. Much more therapists need to be available to support these young people.

paddyann54

There has been trans people around for decades,though not so visible or talked about.
The treatment would have been through private clinics and therefor out of most peoples reach .
The vast majority of trans people ..including the 7 I know just want to get on with their lives .They didn,t want the bad publicity that surrounds them due to a very very small minority of of vocal folk who jumped on a bandwagon..like JK Rowling who like many folk with millions believe that validated their opinions….because they can afford the legal fees to push their point.
I,d bet that many on here have passed a trans woman in a public loo and didn,t know it.Its horrible to see the bile aimed at people who believe they were born in the wrong
My trans friends …and they are not a group,they are from different areas of the country and separate parts of my life and none have ever met…deserve to be left alone in peace with the families they have.There are a lot worse things on earth than trans people.They have had a hard route to get where they are it wasn’t done on a whim

👍👍👍👍

Well thanks Galaxy for the compliment. I'll try to be a bit more predictable 🤣 if I'm feeling lazy.

I just Googled Australia.

It said that the research into the use of puberty blockers is now recognised to of low quality and has led to Queensland recently banning their future use.

Whether other States have followed I haven’t googled yet. I wanted to respond quickly to the claim that that there has been long term multiple research there that can provide any reliable evidence.

The claim appears to be of similar provenance to that of the claim that puberty blockers are reversible.

An incomplete statement.

Even that second article which is actually raising concerns about treatment, detransitioners etc still uses what I would call the language of activists - 'cisgender' etc.

There has been very little scientific curiosity about the change in the demographics of those affected by gender dysphoria, i.e the upsurge in young girls identifying as trans. One of the concerns about the tavistock was its lack of follow up of those using the service.

Galaxy

Indeed the lack of studies, follow up and just lack of basic scientific curiosity is one of the failings of this movement, we should be utterly ashamed.

What "movement" do you mean?

There's certainly no lack of scientific interest and multiple studies over decades in USA, Europe, Australia into treating childhood gender dysphoria (including puberty blockers)

www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/urls_cited/ot2024/23-477/23-477-5.pdf

( US supreme court)

www.bmj.com/content/380/bmj.p382

Plevey I can never predict what you will say on a subject, that is meant as a compliment.

They need the psychological support from the moment they question their sex. But services are underfunded and sparse. Presumably the psychological support will be there if they join the trial .... hmmm

I almost put it in the same bracket as FGM. They certainly need long term psychological support until they reach adulthood, and can make a mature and reasoned choice.

Here is what the trial is meant to do (from AI):

Evaluate Effectiveness: Determine whether puberty blockers genuinely improve psychological wellbeing, quality of life, and emotional functioning, or if they have no significant clinical impact
Assess Physical Risks: Systematically monitor potential harms to bone density, brain (neurocognitive) development, and fertility.
Address the Evidence Gap: Directly respond to findings from the Cass Review, which concluded that previous paediatric gender medicine was built on "remarkably weak" evidence.

In other words children are being recruited to trial these drugs to see if they are either effective in dealing with the problem or, more importantly, safe.

So children are going to be given drugs as an experiment to find out whether they are effective and what harms they might do.

I cannot feel comfortable about this, especially in the light of the fact that much of this problem is politically generated by lobby groups. It has become a "cause."

Children have always been experimented on with new drugs in extremis. This is not the case here.

It is extremely misleading to say puberty blocking is reversible.

It is true that when the drugs are stopped natural hormones will resume over time. Sometimes quickly, sometimes with significant delay. Similar to the contraceptive pill.

What is not reversible are the effects puberty blockers have had on natural development.

We know for a fact that they will affect bone density and skeletal integrity. We know this from laboratory testing, trials and prescription of puberty blockers used to delay puberty in young children. That is why they are given for the minimum period needed to restore normal development.

We also know that they affect the development of areas of the brain that would have developed hormonally and have been prevented from doing so. We have no idea whether this is reversible or whether those areas will continue to life long development.

It is so wrong to promote the myth that they are a temporary breathing space. They effect permanent changes in the body and possible the mind.

This misinformation cannot go unchallenged.

Yes Luckygirl, children do try out identities. that’s one of the reasons we give them some choices about food or clothing. It isn’t indulging them, it’s helping them learn and develop confidence.
I often wished I was a boy from about age 8. Playing out with the boys was much more fun and adventurous than with many of the girls. Currently, we have more adolescent girls saying they’re trans, want to breast bind etc. little wonder given what seems like increasing focus on bodies, weight.

I fear the harm we are subjecting children to by the need to see gender dysphoria as simply a belief they were born in the wrong body. It is so worrying that children are being exposed to validation of this false belief. No-one is born into the "wrong body" - they can be born into a body they do not like, but that is entirely different.

Galaxy is right - it is a "movement" - at one time a child who thought they wanted to be the opposite sex was helped in the privacy of medical and family relationships; this is so different now - it has been politicised and become a cause. And children do not have the experience or wisdom to understand or resist this.

My DD (happily married with 2 children) spent a year wanting to be a dog - I know this has become a cliche, but truly that is what happened. At home she went round on all fours sometimes, barking merrily. We would just pat her on the head and smile. On a holiday once the other participants bought her a rubber bone as a joke!

And then she wanted to be a boy - and to be called Ben. We just went along with it in a light-hearted way.

She was doing what children do: trying on identities to find out who they are.

That is fine and normal - but being sucked into a strident movement is so pernicious. And finishing up on drugs as a result of this is something the state should be protecting our young from.

Indeed the lack of studies, follow up and just lack of basic scientific curiosity is one of the failings of this movement, we should be utterly ashamed.

It must be heartbreaking for the parents of these poor confused children especially if the child has threatened suicide if the family refuse to consent to the treatment.

I am certain in years to come there will be a substantial number of young people who have realised, too late that they have made a terrible mistake.

What will happen then? They will turn on the parents demanding to know why on earth they agreed to it.