Who's Controlling The Straits of Hormuz?

winterwhite

Going back to the OP, Iran may have had severe prevarication but it was not within its rights in closing an international waterway. Compare the straits of Hormuz to the straits of Dover (similar in width at their narrowest points I understand). Just suppose that in a spat with France we were to declare it was ours and cut off all shipping.The whole world would say Oh no it isn’t.

I agree that Trump should have anticipated this as a likely retaliatory move, but he isn’t the sharpest forward thinker and we don’t know which or how many advisers he consulted.

If Reform uK wins a GE and implements Operation Fortress- 100% certain tReform plans to instigate a channel Spat with France.

This is because the UK does not have the legal right to breach France's sovereignty by pushing back irregular immigrants who have left France or Belgium or anywhere else on small boats onto French territory.

Yes lets just suppose a spat with France if there are disagreements rearing the English Channel.

We in the UK have three years to think through the implications of Reform UK's plan Operation Fortress. That is in context of the The Channel and maritime law, international laws for asylum seekers and French Sovereignty. The UK is currently not at war with France. Reform has predicted said spat with France regarding its Operation Fortress Plans three years ahead!

Would the UK be in the wrong in that situation? What might be the adverse outcomes for the UK population in such a scenario? What might the world stage be thinking about the UK if its government implements Operation Fortress, breaches French sovereignty and has such an almighty spat?

Oreo

We’re doing very well here in the UK but the countries such as China and India and the US, which have massive populations and massive emissions are the ones that really need to start going green.That’s what will really make a difference.

No country can rest on its laurels, including the UK- particularly as the uK has a higher population compared than the 179 countries in the world- only 21 countries above us with a larger population.

Worldometers.info lists the populations of all the countries in the world, in descending order. UK is listed at 22 with a population of 69,931,528. The only EU country with a higher population than the UK is Germany at 19 with a population of 83,644,258 at 19. All other European countries have a smaller population than the UK.

Denmark is a tenth the size of the UK population - with a population of 6,023,520, but performs better on Climate Action than the UK.

So the UK alongside China, US and Canada and the other 17 top populated countries in the world need to do our bit going green. That will really make a difference.

Ranked progress against Climate action goals as set out in Paris agreement is available on climate action.org tracker ( just enter chosen country in 'find your country' section) today tlists the UK progress in the insufficient zone.

Going back to the OP, Iran may have had severe prevarication but it was not within its rights in closing an international waterway. Compare the straits of Hormuz to the straits of Dover (similar in width at their narrowest points I understand). Just suppose that in a spat with France we were to declare it was ours and cut off all shipping.The whole world would say Oh no it isn’t.

I agree that Trump should have anticipated this as a likely retaliatory move, but he isn’t the sharpest forward thinker and we don’t know which or how many advisers he consulted.

We’re doing very well here in the UK but the countries such as China and India and the US, which have massive populations and massive emissions are the ones that really need to start going green.That’s what will really make a difference.

I refer back discussion on another thread about how much water is used cleaning your teeth if you keep the tap running. It was pointed out that if every one just saved a litre every time they cleaned their teeth that would save nearly 140 million llitres of water a day.

The same with emissions. Britain has already reduced its emission by40%. Mainly by exporting most of our manufacturing industries to China, but at a personal level, every little helps.

I did a quiz yesterday on an energy saving site and I was pleased to see that my personal foot print was lower than I feared, several tonnes of emissions lower.

Again if all of us tweak our lives,(I am sure I can get lower) Just a reduction in one ton of emissions a year per person is nearly 70 million tonnes of emissions not made.

Oreo

We are a tiny island in the world so what we do here won’t do much about global warming but I agree the need for all countries to find alternative energy sources.A lot of countries including us are doing what we can, meanwhile opening up the North Sea fields is the way to go.Buying from Norway is idiotic when you think about it.

Irrespective of being an island, the UK is small compared to giant countries like Russia or Canada but it's not tiny at all on a global scale. It ranks 78th to 80th of 200 countries by land area

It may feel tiny (it's not) or even small but it's highly populated making it the 21st largest of 200 countries in the world for population size

So a myth to think the UK won't do much about global warming- peddled by certain UK political parties.

Wyllow3

*Hear hear* Monica to take briefly one point you make up - every day, more forest fires, burnt crops, unbearable heat, when for goodness sake will we grasp it by the nettle internationally. (as you were, discussion wise)

It is being grasped by very many countries but you can’t go green overnight.

We are a tiny island in the world so what we do here won’t do much about global warming but I agree the need for all countries to find alternative energy sources.A lot of countries including us are doing what we can, meanwhile opening up the North Sea fields is the way to go.Buying from Norway is idiotic when you think about it.

I agree with you M0nica.
Whatever Iran has done in the wider region or whatever we think of its vile regime, it remains a sovereign country, so if it is bombed it will respond accordingly.
As Trump is now painfully aware. Just a pity there seems to have been no intelligent discourse with experts in the military or with experience of the volatile region before Trump went blustering in.

Hear hear Monica to take briefly one point you make up - every day, more forest fires, burnt crops, unbearable heat, when for goodness sake will we grasp it by the nettle internationally. (as you were, discussion wise)

Oreo

I think if you asked all the countries around Iran what they thought of them the air would turn blue Monica and as always, I live in the real world.

I have no illusions about the regime in charge of Iran at the moment. They are financing almost every Islamic terrorist group in the world and are behind most if the misery in the middle east at the moment and instigated the current Arab/Israeli war.

But I understand this thread as being specifically about the closing of the Straits of Hormuz, not the wider problems that beset that area or the rights or wrongs of it and who is the nastiest snake in the snake pit

The Straits of Hormuz were open and running freely before Trump started to bomb Iran for no obvious reason. Then Iran closed it. What else would you expect them to do in these circumstances. It is a very useful weapon in their armoury. Maximum world chaos for a minimal effort on their part.

That Trump and his unsavoury coterie of carpet baggers failed to see that and plan for it shows just how far the US has fallen.

As far as I am concerned Trump got himself into this mess, he can get himself out of it.

What it does emphasise is that it is essential we are in a position where we need to have as many alternative sources of hydrocarbons as possible. Net Zero is Net Zero.

With the concentration of attention on the use of hydro carbons being burnt in our cars and homes people forget the many other uses this product as chemical feedstock for so many industries including pharmaceuticals, cleanliness and hygiene in hospitals and all medical care. plastic sheathing makes electrical wires safe in use, is used for pipes in building, and those pipelines that take oil to homes and factories.

Our need for hydrocarbons will continue until we have a another technical revolution as revolutionary as the first industrial revolution. So we will need to keep oil and gas flowingalbeit in smaller quantities, so we need to keep producing it around the British Isles, and Norway and open up new sources so that we are not at the mercy of Middle Eastern and American despots.

Its imo a ? as to whether its more hardline that before in the sense of how they run matters internally.

But

They have alway held these views about the West and have been arming for 49 years since the meddling in governance ie forced regime changes which ended up eventually with Khomeini taking power.

They've been ready for a long long time actually.

It is affecting all of us and wasn’t thought through properly at all. Clearly. I am sick to death of the high petrol prices, higher grocery prices not to mention the huge loss of life on all sides. What a Richard Cranium the man is.

The anger in Iran towards the USA is not just based in recent events.

It has a cultivated and educated middle class, men and women (despite the grim issues around some controls on some women - it depends on the Revolutionary guard in any given area atm)

and Iran is suffering from very high inflation indeed because of the sanctions imposed against it for so very long.

It's known, and noted, who caused that.

I'm no fan of the Iranian regime but Trump has definitely made a bad situation worse by starting this completely unnecessary war, although I suspect he and his family and cronies are making lots of money from it. The Iranian people now have a more "hardline" government and are suffering the consequences of having vital infrastructure bombed by the US. World trade has suffered and the price of oil has been inflated which affects the poorest people in the world, the most. The US has depleted it's stocks of weapons and has spent billions of dollars fighting this totally useless war. There is no end in sight as the Iranian regime refuses to be bullied. What an absolute mess!

Yes. an on the R4 news last night, Iran says it is talking to Oman, (yes not the USA) presumably about the bit they control, to put a united face on it.

Trump yet again threatened he will bomb them out of existence (or words to that effect). the mid terms are coming up, and I find this threat horrific. We are not just talking about the Iranian Revolutionary Guard (the military police of Iran) but ordinary people like you and I and the idea of wiping out what is an old and valuable historical civilisation - Persia -

(Who had already been badly meddled with at the end of WW1 by in the famine although they had clearly stood as neutral
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_famine_of_1917–1919) is utterly abhorrent.)

BTW, remember another player in the area and a powerful one Saudi Arabia - had signed a deal for nuclear power with the US, but then Trump insisted they would have to drop demands which currently exist across the region that Palestinian Statehood must be recognised, in order to gain this, and the Saudi's have yet to agree.

Trump is doing a good job there basically creating a situation where the current divided nations in the region may yet reach accords.

He has released something he cannot control and efforts to scrabble back a hold lie either with massive threats or the necessity to put US boots on the ground, which will mean goodbye to a lot of power in the US mid terms.

Maremia

And in the real world, the Strait of Hormuz was open, before Netanyahu lured Trump into an illegal war.

Precisely

And in the real world, the Strait of Hormuz was open, before Netanyahu lured Trump into an illegal war.

I think if you asked all the countries around Iran what they thought of them the air would turn blue Monica and as always, I live in the real world.

Iran has behaved badly? What world do you live in.

Shipping was travelling freely through the Gulf of Hormuz until Trump decided to bomb Iran with the aim of killing its leaders and effecting regime change. Well he killed its leaders, but the result was not regime change

As a result Iran closed the Straits of Hormuz. It was easy to do and had the additional advantage that it caused maximum inconvenience with minimal loss of life.

Yes, the Iranians did also bomb American interests and allies in the Gulf, what else would you expect them to do? But remember who started it - and it was not the Iranians.

Iam64

It wasn’t used as a weapon till Trump started this war. His impulsive, narcissistic behaviour seems to have stopped his war advisers and Generals from realising Iran could react by taking control of its territorial waters

👍👍👍

Fallingstar

Yes, the Straits of Hormuz are Iran’s territorial waters so they dictate what happens. And as Happilyretired123 has stated the Iranian regime use this as their ultimate weapon in the war Trump started.

Not quite, Oman and Iran share some 12 miles of territorial waters but nobody owns it or can legally deny shipping to travel through it. As everyone can see, Iran has behaved badly even to its very near neighbours and is paying the price now.

It wasn’t used as a weapon till Trump started this war. His impulsive, narcissistic behaviour seems to have stopped his war advisers and Generals from realising Iran could react by taking control of its territorial waters

Crumbley159
Brent crude dropped about 5% this morning.

Yes, the Straits of Hormuz are Iran’s territorial waters so they dictate what happens. And as Happilyretired123 has stated the Iranian regime use this as their ultimate weapon in the war Trump started.