Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. Yes, the voters of Clacton have been fooled again!

I'm with you on this DaisyAnneReurns. Also think the request for a balanced discussion was reasonable. However because of decades long Tories shambles, it is understandable that some voters will of course vote for a more forceful and different character. Despite all the inevitable damage Farage will cause...I suspect we will have to all suffer the consequences. I'm just amazed at how the baseless promises are enough to tempt. Particularly as his corruption is being continuously being investigated.

So much insight Cossy, thanks.

Galaxy

Some of those people will be dead now, some of the children from 2008 will be in their thirties, it is understandable that being told it will take a long time probably isn't a vote winning strategy ( that's not aimed at you cossy). It is something that I hear in regards to all sorts of vulnerabilities , I remember some rightly furious parents saying they only get one shot at reception, we cant wait till it is sorted.

I get that and I entirely agree.

My only comment is that often certain situations took a great deal of time to get into, ie debt or being very overweight, or being out of work long term, it takes just as long, and often longer, to reverse situations.

I understand their frustrations.

Rosie51

Cossy During the period of 2008-2014, during the last part of the Labour Party “reign” and the start of the 14 year Tory rule, Jaywick actually had shedloads of resource afforded to them.

Jaywick actually had shedloads of resource afforded to them

I didn't know that, but wonder why it didn't make a difference, such that they are still the most deprived area of the UK?

I do appreciate that I'm lucky enough not to experience their problems but can just hold forth here on the internet.

Because it’s taken decades of ingrained “I’m better off on benefits” rather than working culture, with people topping up benefits to give them what they think they need/want, using cash-in- hand work, black market activity and drug dealing.

People like this need a huge amount of consistent and continued support, for years, to overcome their “culture of belief”, years of telling themselves that it’s not worth working, then grouping people together with similar backgrounds and views in almost ghetto like clusters, is never going to work.

It’s almost like breaking people of addictions.

This way of life suits some, others simply don’t know how to break away and then you get a Farage coming along and telling them constantly,

“no one cares about you but me, the govt and authorities and establishment only care about themselves and foreigners, people who don’t belong here are being treated better than you. It’s all these interlopers fault, not your fault, blame them. Send them all back and all your problems will disappear. Trust me, I care about you, not them.”

It’s all nonsense of course, there is no easy answers and a lot of the “real work” needs to be done by these people themselves. Sometimes the help is there, but it involves a certain commitment, a certain sense of aspiration and sheer hard work.

I sincerely hope that is not his top priority dayvidg. It’s worked well for the UK for centuries, any proportional representation system poses equal if not greater challenges in terms of decision making, and there are so many other imperatives for him to achieve.

One can but hope that Andy Burnham converts his avowed support for electoral reform into something meaningful when the Representation of the People Bill comes back to Parliament next month.

Its a huge leap for Reform to go from contesting 635 constituencies and only winning 5 in 2024 GE to contest the same number of constituencies again at the next GE in 3 years time and would win sufficient constituency votes outright to return enough MPs to Westminster to form a government.

Not when its poll ratings have dipped to the lowest level since 2024.

dayvidg

M0nica

Since there are 76,000 registered voters in Clacton and only 22,000 voted for Farage, that is only 30% of the electorate voting for him.

Hardly a resounding victory.

Calling your opponents fools because they disagree with you is such an old hackneyed meme, it isn't worth commenting on.

And yet Labour's 33.7% vote share in the 2024 General Election was a massive victory.

Indeed it ws a massive Labour Party victory on a similar electorate vote share. Clacton is just one reactively small electorate compared to the whole of the UK.

The 2024 UK General Election did indeed lead to very different outcomes for both Reform UK and Labour.

Labour contested 621 constituencies and won 411 of them thereby returning 411 MPs to Westminster, ie the largest number of MPs by far. with 411 MPs the Labour Party was able to form a majority government.

The Conservative Party contested 635 constituencies and won 121, returning the next highest number of 121 MPs to Westminster thereby becoming the opposition .party

In contrast Reform UK contested 689 constituencies yet won only 5, returning the low number of 5 MPs to Westminster.

dayvidg

M0nica

Since there are 76,000 registered voters in Clacton and only 22,000 voted for Farage, that is only 30% of the electorate voting for him.

Hardly a resounding victory.

Calling your opponents fools because they disagree with you is such an old hackneyed meme, it isn't worth commenting on.

And yet Labour's 33.7% vote share in the 2024 General Election was a massive victory.

That’s how a first past the post system works? Labour would not be in power unless more constituencies put no other candidates ahead of the Labour candidate.

Farage’s only real opponent was Binface.

Some of those people will be dead now, some of the children from 2008 will be in their thirties, it is understandable that being told it will take a long time probably isn't a vote winning strategy ( that's not aimed at you cossy). It is something that I hear in regards to all sorts of vulnerabilities , I remember some rightly furious parents saying they only get one shot at reception, we cant wait till it is sorted.

I would have voted for Binface had I lived in Clacton. Educated, fun, interesting, energetic, Clacton-oriented and present there. No way could I have voted Farage/Reform for all the reasons given above - Brexit, alleged fraud, absence, misogyny, racism, etc!

Cossy During the period of 2008-2014, during the last part of the Labour Party “reign” and the start of the 14 year Tory rule, Jaywick actually had shedloads of resource afforded to them.

Jaywick actually had shedloads of resource afforded to them

I didn't know that, but wonder why it didn't make a difference, such that they are still the most deprived area of the UK?

I do appreciate that I'm lucky enough not to experience their problems but can just hold forth here on the internet.

It’s actually relatively simple.

I worked for many years with the long term unemployed and multi generational unemployment.

This is one of the major thing which affects wards like Jaywick and Pier Ward.

We have pockets of deprivation across the UK and people who have never worked, with parents and grandparents who’ve never (legally) worked.

These aren’t “illegal immigrants” or any other kind of foreigner, here to steal our welfare or housing.

These are third generation, white British born welfare claimants, caught in a vicious cycle of not having worked, perhaps not having the best education and feeling that life has no point and no purpose, combined by a lack of entry level work and substandard housing.

Needs an absolute ton of people resource, education and massive life style and cultural change. It’s not easy and it’s not a quick fix, but it is the only way forward.

M0nica

Since there are 76,000 registered voters in Clacton and only 22,000 voted for Farage, that is only 30% of the electorate voting for him.

Hardly a resounding victory.

Calling your opponents fools because they disagree with you is such an old hackneyed meme, it isn't worth commenting on.

And yet Labour's 33.7% vote share in the 2024 General Election was a massive victory.

I watched that series about Jaywick. It was incredibly sad. People just being dumped there without adequate support systems Something that seemed quite popular to do on the East coast at the time.

The TV crew were apparently buying the alcoholics alcohol too, one of them died whilst filming was happening It was exploitative imo

Sorry, I do realise this isn't what the thread is about - or is it? is part of the problem that vulnerable people are housed 'away' from areas where they may have had previous support.

Maremia

Yes, some people do feel like that, but
'treated at hospital' if Farage was in control would cost them.

I do understand that

Rosie51

Actually, I don’t think the people are fools, to be fooled you don’t need to also be a fool, gullible or desperate or both.

Re Jaywick, you are mistaken that no govt has attempted to help them.

During the period of 2008-2014, during the last part of the Labour Party “reign” and the start of the 14 year Tory rule, Jaywick actually had shedloads of resource afforded to them.

Both Chelmsford and Tendring LA were involved in setting this up.

The DWP set up a mini jobcentre service onsite, in partnership with social care and
family workers.

All this was closed down due to massive budgetary cuts during austerity.

I know this because I spent some time working on this project which was an Essex wide initiative.

Saying what farage might do is not going to win votes. 'You' need to offer something better. They have failed to do that.

Yes, some people do feel like that, but
'treated at hospital' if Farage was in control would cost them.

Lathyrus3

Yes he hasn’t been a good MP for Clacton and he’s still been re-elected whilst the majority of people there just couldn’t be bothered to vote at all.

Because they believe nobody in power is listening or cares about their concerns.

And they’re right aren’t they?

This ⬆︎

When it's obvious nobody cares about you and hasn't for years, why bother to vote when it won't change anything? Given a choice of Farage or Binface I'd not have bothered to vote.

I think what Lathyrus has posted is spot on, as to why.

A few generations ago people could afford to rent or buy a house where they were brought up, they were able to work reasonable hours with reasonable stress levels. They had good work life balance. They believed if they were ill their local Dr would see them and they would get treated at hospital if necessary.

I know I'm being simplistic but most people just want the same thing. He (NF) evokes a feeling that our home grown are having this all taken off them and he will change that. There is no mention of globalisation, loss of industry etc

Yes he hasn’t been a good MP for Clacton and he’s still been re-elected whilst the majority of people there just couldn’t be bothered to vote at all.

Because they believe nobody in power is listening or cares about their concerns.

And they’re right aren’t they?

JaneJudge

This is what democracy is People fought hard for votes for women, the working men, then working class women.

I think people are manipulated too but democracy gives people a choice and that choice is their own

This is true but I would personally like to know if I'm being misinformed.

Cossy

Rosie51

If DAR feels these people have been “fooled”, (I happen to agree), she doesn’t think they are fools themselves. I think that's very open to interpretation. Given the title says.....^fool me twice shame on me^ she's not exactly lauding them is she? They should feel shame?

I think “they” have done nothing wrong and imo should be pitied.

How sad not to realise that you’re simply a totally unimportant pawn in a power-hungry, money-grabbing grifter, not once, but twice.

The utter disdain Farage has, and is continuing to show towards these people is utterly disgraceful.

I agree Cossy that Farage treats his constituents with utter disdain, that doesn't mean I think his constituents should be thought fools. I wouldn't have voted Farage, he's done nothing for the area or his constituents, but then nor has any government given two hoots about those people either. Jaywick has been acknowledged as the most deprived area of the UK yet no government of any hue has bothered to try and rectify that. It shouldn't require a decent MP to attempt to rectify that situation, but those people don't actually appear to matter.

mum2three

Nice to know there are thousands of people who still care about this country and live in hope of stopping the take-over.

If you truly believe this, I wish you’d clearly explain exactly what you mean by “stopping the take-over” Please do elucidate.