Does there need to be a new by-election rule?

Maremia

It was his choice to resign, Lathyrus. No one forced him to so do.
Resign, goodbye. His choice.

The man who paid 5 million might have had a say in how best to protect himself.

I think any sitting MP who is dismissed by or leaves their Party should resign their seat. So that the Constituency can elect someone who represents their democratic intention.

The Resigner waits till the next GE to find out if any party wants to field a deserter as a candidate.

If an MP changes parties midterm then I think there definitely should be an election because people voted for one thing and are getting something very different and not what they supported or voted for. That goes for the UK and Australia.

If you resign your seat as an MP you should not be able to stand in the the same constituency in the by-election that you have caused.

Maremia

It was his choice to resign, Lathyrus. No one forced him to so do.
Resign, goodbye. His choice.

I dont get your point really.

A rule that if you resign you cant stand agsin?

No, no new rules. I think it's important to let satirical candidates stand and also independents drawing attention to local and national concerns (as when Martin Bell stood successfully in 1997: 'the man in the white suit'.)

Luckygirl3

JaneJudge

I don't suppose 250k is much to Nigel Farage but to an ordinary person it could buy you a flat or house

He did not pay - we all did.

I do understand that but it's nothing to him

It was his choice to resign, Lathyrus. No one forced him to so do.
Resign, goodbye. His choice.

On balance I would prefer a by election when an MP crosses the floor. However the reality is the electorate can make their feelings and vote clear the next time a GE comes around anyway. Reform's handful of Conservative defector MPs may not hold their seats at the next vote.

But the fiasco of an MP who is subject to parliamentary investigation and party police investigation, being able to call a £250,000 by election merely seeking re election for a seat they already hold takes the biscuit. But I guess the same principle applies at the next vote, which may be sooner than the next GE if the investigation outcome is adverse,

Farage will then face yet another by election and this time with actual competition from all main parties-unlike yesterday. Farage is already looking tired and older in recent photos- so another round of campaigning will take its toll further.

Still, as Farage may be realising this morning, tired and exhausted, his investigation resumes, police investigations resume and continue. He still faces questions and scrutiny about finances which may be a reason why he avoided the count and the press. Outside Clacton his and his party's poll ratings are going in the wrong direction and the lowest since 2024 General Election.

A hollow and meaningless victory by all accounts.

I just wish my mp would stand down and trigger a by election. He is currently on charge with accusations of sexual misdemeanours. As he is suspended from the House he cannot act properly on behalf of his constituents. Yes innocent until proven guilty but this has been going on for about 16 months and he cannot be made to stand down whilst we lack true representation. Furthermore he has had to change party to be an independent. It’s not what we voted for.

Winston Churchill crossed the floor twice - once Conservative to Liberals and then back again. There are others but Reform takes the biscuit for having half its MPs as defectors who have not been elected for the party.

Have MP’s always switched to other parties or is it just a recent thing? I know a local councillor ( he used to arrange the bus trips to London to go on the people’s vote marches) switched from the Conservatives to the LibDems because of Brexit and he got no end of threats from people.

Reform offered to pay the by election costs no doubt fully aware that it is not permissible in law to do so. Although nothing at all stops Reform UK donating £250,000 either to Clacton Council or more appropriately a £250,000 sum to various key charities in the Clacton constituency.

If it was a genuine offer that is 🫤

I completely agree with MaizieD. There should be a rule that MPs subject to current parliamentary investigation and their party finances currently subject to police investigation should not be able to call a local by election and then immediately put themselves forward to be re-elected for an MP role they are already in.

The council had to spend £250,000+ to carry out the completely unnecessary Clacton by election process.

MPs who cross the floor to another party on balance I think should subject themselves to a by election as their new party candidate.

In Maakerfield there was a by election after the incumbent MP resigned. You can't stop MPs resigning for whatever reason, illness, retirement, personal reasons whatever. Evidently that creates an MP vacancy as in the case of Markerfield and every other location an MP has resigned. All parties then decided who to put forward their preferred candidate in a level playing field scenario. AB also had to secure LP executive committee permission to stand on which he took a chance previously- denied- this time allowed. AB did go on to emphatically win the Makerfield by election fair and square on his own merit and is currently doing better than any other party leader in national polls. So I would not put a rule in place to disallow MPs from resigning for whatever reason as long as a by election follows so there is a legitimate electorate vote in every case and not just a shoe in replacement MP.

Galaxy

I dont think it is media led, I think it is to do with quality of politicians, I am glad the media are there to be honest to highlight the likes of Mandelsson etc.

That is absolutely fair enough, but the media (Press, TV and radio) over the past few years has done very little to highlight Farage's mendacity. Far from it, they've been bigging him up as a potential PM.

If an MP crosses the floor there definitely should be a by-election in my opinion.

I think the reasons given by NF for the Clacton by-election are questionable.

He offered to pay for the costs out of his/Reforms pocket, I can only assume that he knew that under English law that is not permitted.

Despite my feelings regarding the circumstances of the Makersfield by-election, it was not illegal under current laws.

I dont think it is media led, I think it is to do with quality of politicians, I am glad the media are there to be honest to highlight the likes of Mandelsson etc.

DaisyAnneReturns

mum2three

It does seem an odd thing to do, but Farage wanted to give people the chance to get rid of him if they so chose. Instead it has confirmed the support he has.

That's a very kind way of looking at it mum2three

Yes. It shows that he was capable of beating a dustbin …

A lot of this deterioration I'm standards is media led.

MaizieD

I think that people are in danger of forgetting the reason Farage gave for resigning and forcing this unnecessary by-election.

I quote from his explanation:

why should I be judged today, or in history in the future, by Sky News and their ilk? Why should they be the people that decide my fate? When, as I repeat, I have done nothing wrong.

“I thought about it hard and I have decided today I will resign as a Member of Parliament for Clacton-on-Sea, thereby forcing a by-election, which should happen, I hope, in short order.

"*Now I’ve decided that the people of Clacton should be the judges of my actions.* This will be a people versus the establishment by-election. It’s a chance to stick two fingers up to the entire Establishment to frankly tell them where to go, and that is why I will be putting my name forward to stand in this by-election.

Quote taken from here:

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/clacton-election-taking-place-34443044

I tried to write a post about the serious anti democratic implications of what Farage said but was getting bogged down so I gave the quoted passage to AI to respond to and its response is very much what I wanted to say. So here it is:

The really disturbing thing about this argument is the suggestion that “the people of Clacton should be the judges of my actions” because Parliament is investigating an MP for an alleged breach of parliamentary standards.

No. The people of Clacton are the judges of who represents them in Parliament. They are not a substitute for Parliament's own disciplinary and standards procedures.

In our parliamentary democracy, those are two quite different functions. Parliament establishes rules governing the conduct of its members and has procedures for investigating alleged breaches of those rules. The electorate then decides who should represent them.

To portray this as “the people versus the establishment” is therefore deeply misleading. Parliament isn't some external, anti-democratic authority standing above the electorate. Parliament is itself a democratic institution, and its standards system exists precisely because MPs are supposed to be accountable to rules as well as to voters.

An MP cannot simply turn an investigation into a popularity contest by resigning, forcing a by-election and inviting voters to declare him innocent. A successful by-election would demonstrate that voters want him as their MP. It would not establish whether he breached parliamentary standards.

Otherwise, the argument amounts to: if enough people vote for me, the rules no longer apply to me.

That isn't democracy. It's an attempt to make electoral popularity the arbiter of parliamentary conduct.

I would add that at one point in his 'rationale' Farage says I have done nothing wrong. Isn't that the cry of every criminal throughout history?

I agree completely with both Mazie and AI.

mum2three

It does seem an odd thing to do, but Farage wanted to give people the chance to get rid of him if they so chose. Instead it has confirmed the support he has.

That’s so not the point.

This isn’t at all what Farage did, his gripe is with being investigated. The investigated has restarted.

Until this has been completed, none of us, including Farage, know if he’s done anything wrong, either unintentionally or intentionally.

He’s not the only one in his tiny “party” being investigated for financial irregularities.

The political circus he caused is a complete disgrace and extremely expensive and time consuming.

I feel the same way about Burnham, even though that’s the party of my choice.

I utterly abhor our politics currently, from Badenoch’s ridiculous ideas, to Farage’s dramatic hissy fits, to the way Starmer was replaced, to Polanski’s stunts.

They should all feel thoroughly ashamed and get on with the jobs they are all paid to do. (In my opinion)

If any of us had behaved in these manners in our own jobs I would wager we’d have been fired, and rightly so. 🤬🤬🤬

Wow MaizieD

I think that people are in danger of forgetting the reason Farage gave for resigning and forcing this unnecessary by-election.

I quote from his explanation:

why should I be judged today, or in history in the future, by Sky News and their ilk? Why should they be the people that decide my fate? When, as I repeat, I have done nothing wrong.

“I thought about it hard and I have decided today I will resign as a Member of Parliament for Clacton-on-Sea, thereby forcing a by-election, which should happen, I hope, in short order.

"*Now I’ve decided that the people of Clacton should be the judges of my actions.* This will be a people versus the establishment by-election. It’s a chance to stick two fingers up to the entire Establishment to frankly tell them where to go, and that is why I will be putting my name forward to stand in this by-election.

Quote taken from here:

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/clacton-election-taking-place-34443044

I tried to write a post about the serious anti democratic implications of what Farage said but was getting bogged down so I gave the quoted passage to AI to respond to and its response is very much what I wanted to say. So here it is:

The really disturbing thing about this argument is the suggestion that “the people of Clacton should be the judges of my actions” because Parliament is investigating an MP for an alleged breach of parliamentary standards.

No. The people of Clacton are the judges of who represents them in Parliament. They are not a substitute for Parliament's own disciplinary and standards procedures.

In our parliamentary democracy, those are two quite different functions. Parliament establishes rules governing the conduct of its members and has procedures for investigating alleged breaches of those rules. The electorate then decides who should represent them.

To portray this as “the people versus the establishment” is therefore deeply misleading. Parliament isn't some external, anti-democratic authority standing above the electorate. Parliament is itself a democratic institution, and its standards system exists precisely because MPs are supposed to be accountable to rules as well as to voters.

An MP cannot simply turn an investigation into a popularity contest by resigning, forcing a by-election and inviting voters to declare him innocent. A successful by-election would demonstrate that voters want him as their MP. It would not establish whether he breached parliamentary standards.

Otherwise, the argument amounts to: if enough people vote for me, the rules no longer apply to me.

That isn't democracy. It's an attempt to make electoral popularity the arbiter of parliamentary conduct.

I would add that at one point in his 'rationale' Farage says I have done nothing wrong. Isn't that the cry of every criminal throughout history?

A beautiful summary Casdon- is it not hot where you are?

Maremia

They should have had a by-election without him.

So you are in favour of controlling who can stand as an MP.

What should the criteria be?

On another thread a couple of people are in favour of limiting it to people who have high levels of money or financial backing.

Quite a hark back to the days when only the rich could make our laws.