How the media created Reform

Maremia

Anyone who thinks that the Reform rabble in those videos was a group of 'ordinary middle class citizens', MT63

They looked like very ordinary men & woman to me.
Nothing out of the ordinary.
As for Lee Anderson buying that chap a walking stick, it was a totally crass thing crass thing to say.

Incase that question was aimed at me about people around my way!
The area where I live is very nice. The families around here are all working, mainly professionals. People who run their own businesses, nurses, a firefighter police, including my husband, now retired, even a Gp man & wife around the corner.
What I do know that a lot are fed up with this government, the migrant crisis- those who have young families are worried for the future of their children.
But no, no knuckle dragging people.

I can say across a busy main road further up, are plenty of HMOs
It’s not an area I remember from the past.
Nice little terrace houses.
Doorsteps donkey stoned. Spotless garden fronts. Shame really as now
Gardens are full of rubbish, old sofas. Litter all over the place.
It’s disgraceful.
It area I now wouldn’t walk through.

for some reason the TV focussed on this episode.

Perhaps because the conference attendees joined in with beating up the hecklers? That's not a normal proceeding when hecklers are removed.

I agree MaizieD, the assault, by the Reform delegates, seems to be what TV and now social media appears to have as the focus.

They did at first look 'normal'.
Just some citizens attending the Conference of their chosen party, to hear the new policies.
But, is anyone saying that assault is a 'normal' reaction to heckling, when there is paid security to deal with it?

Going back to the OP, perhaps recent media reporting of suspected illegality, and now this debacle at the Conference, could be their undoing?

Maremia

They did at first look 'normal'.
Just some citizens attending the Conference of their chosen party, to hear the new policies.
But, is anyone saying that assault is a 'normal' reaction to heckling, when there is paid security to deal with it?

I am certainly not condoning it, but with what’s happened in the past, Charlie Kirk, MPs being attacked, murdered, maybe they just panicked.
Who’s to say it would not have happened at a labour conference!
You don’t know for sure.

There are always hecklers but usually doesn't result in violence. I don't think violence can ever be condoned.
Several people attacked this young woman. Shame on them and on Farage for finding it amusing and inciting violence by chanting "Boring, boring".

I watched Laura Kuenssberg interviewing Nigel Farage this morning.

I can see why people are taken with him and Reform, they are filling a vacuum within the U.K. political scene.

They give the impression of listening to the electorate and tell them that they will sort out their problems overnight if in a position to form a government.

He (NF) repeatedly said that he was not a compliance officer he concentrated on the party and getting elected. That he paid people to ensure that Reform U.K. operated within the legal framework and that the powers that be had it in for them as they were seen as political disrupters

Only after the findings of the current investigations will we know if anyone is guilty of the charges payed against NF and Reform.

In the meantime he will continue to work his magic on the disenfranchised people of the U.K.

I haven’t voted for Reform, I am still hoping for a return to what was Conservatism.

GG13 I do think he played the victim in that interview.
I agree with you that I would like to be able to vote conservative again but not with the present party.

AGAA4

GG13 I do think he played the victim in that interview.
I agree with you that I would like to be able to vote conservative again but not with the present party.

Yes, and while he is perceived by his followers and maybe floating voters to being victimised by the establishment he and Reform will keep if not expand their support.

It’s been a terrible conference for Reform overshadowed by controversy. Some appallingly bad attempts to defend the party over what was revealed in the Verbatim undercover investigation and shrug off the attacks on young female hecklers who were only stating the truth.

The stick attacker is 64 year old Stephen Cooling who stood for UKiP in a local election in 2016 and was part of the Aaron Banks funded GO Grassroots Out group started by Peter Bone, Farage, Tice, Kate Hoey and others after controversy with Vote Leave. His social media profile picture is a photo of him with Farage who is wearing a GO tie.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grassroots_Out

Cooling and his wife Dee (Edna) have recent history of making vile social media posts.

Commentators have noted the absence of mayors Andrea Jenkyns and Luke Campbell from the conference. Rumours are circulating that the latter is set to defect to Labour. Out of his depth in the job, he would receive far better mentoring from Burnham. I doubt he’s has any from Reform because who is there there with any experience?

Any that’s the whole crux about Reform. A lot of noise about how they would govern but nobody there with any experience of doing so successfully. Braverman and Jenrick were poor at their jobs and are predicted to lose their seats anyway along with Kruger, Rosindell and Pochin.

Farage is predicting a snap election in 2027. Assuming Reform could even get to 326, that would leave him, Tice and Anderson plus 323 new MPs with 149 ministerial positions to fill. Yet he’s proclaiming that any minister who isn’t able to fulfil policy promises in the first 100 days would be sacked. It shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how Parliament works even with experienced people in post. It's nothing more than a gimmick as the silly "resignation" letters show.

Six months into the Labour government, Reform tried to present its first Bill (to abolish Quantitative Easing). They had five MPs at the time and didn’t know how to do it. Hoyle described them as a shambles.

This kind of thing won’t bother their cult following but it bothers me. We’ve seen new Reform-lead councils asking for pressing matters to be put on hold for months so they can get up to speed. That doesn’t work in local government and it wouldn’t work in Westminster. Government has to be ready to manage pressing national and international events. Reform simply would not be able to do that.

What a wicked sort of Karma.
The main thug posted vile social media attacks, and now he is the victim if the same.

Perhaps they were panicking?
Seriously MT62, that looked like rage to me.

If Reform get voted in I will have to leave the country.

GrannyGravy13

AGAA4

GG13 I do think he played the victim in that interview.
I agree with you that I would like to be able to vote conservative again but not with the present party.

Yes, and while he is perceived by his followers and maybe floating voters to being victimised by the establishment he and Reform will keep if not expand their support.

I can understand that. The victimisation by the Establishment that Farage complains of is it's insistence that he follows its rules.

There is a sizeable section of society which admires people who break the rules.

I was told by a friend that during the Johnson regime he was having a drink in a local pub and during a conversation about Johnson a number pf people said that they really liked Johnson 'because he breaks the rules'

Look at the recent glorification by some locals of the young men killed in the wrong way driving crash at Middlesbrough. They have no time for 'the rules'.

MT62

Maremia

They did at first look 'normal'.
Just some citizens attending the Conference of their chosen party, to hear the new policies.
But, is anyone saying that assault is a 'normal' reaction to heckling, when there is paid security to deal with it?

I am certainly not condoning it, but with what’s happened in the past, Charlie Kirk, MPs being attacked, murdered, maybe they just panicked.
Who’s to say it would not have happened at a labour conference!
You don’t know for sure.

Crikey- no MP was attacked or murdered at this year's Reform UK conference! No MP has ever been murdered at any UK political party conference in history! Maybe Reform UK party conference attendees should go through a security check to ensure attendees are not carrying guns or offensive weapons if that is a perceived risk. Reform UK has not suggested the woman who was attacked was armed or carrying an offensive weapon.

The only person attacked was the woman in the circulating videos. She is the person that is the victim. The LP has no accountability for her attack. The LP is accountable for what takes place at its own conferences not for the Reform UK conferences.

Moving on from the possibility of murder and returning to the attack on this woman. There is no legitimate reason to assault a heckler in light of free speech laws in this country. Verbal protesters/hecklers are a pretty common sight at political conferences. Farage has been keen to emphasise the right to free speech in support of Lucy Connolly, Robert Kenyon, himself and others. The right to free speech does not only apply to Reform UK leaders, MPs, members and supporters.

Hecklers can be removed if causing a disruption by security guards who act professionally and safely. Other security guards should have intervened to stop and remove the bystanders that started to violently attack this woman- ie those assaulting bystanders posed a greater physical risk than the female verbal heckler, but they failed to do so. In the moment Reform UK failed to hold their members and supporters accountable for their actions. Since then, Reform UK has also failed to call out their behaviour, thereby condoning the bystanders' behaviours.

Just 2 hours before this attack, Sarah Pochin announced Woman for Reform, claiming migrants are the ones women should be afraid of. Yet we saw evidence in the footage that women should abe afraid of violence from Reform UK members and supporters in the same way. The party says it works to protect women and girls. How can we trust Reform UK will be able to put their words in action for the protection of women across the country when they are not even able to protect women at their own annual conference with security guards present?

To date, security guards employed by the Labour Party at their conferences have been able to remove unwanted hecklers professionally and safely. No LP member or supporter has ever violently assaulted a heckler whilst in the process of being removed from any of the LP conferences. Clean slate to date.

I know which of the two parties I trust more to protect the safety of and rights of women.

I'm a floating voter not a member of Reform but I watched some of the Conference on TV yesterday and it looked a.success to me no other party could draw crowds like this. Obviously I don't condone violence but what do you think should happen to this chap who hit the protestor just curious, Labour are letting thousands of criminals out early some violent and no I don't trust Labour to look after our woman and girls just look at the Rape Gang cover up. Also Braverman.said if they get in they will scrap the cap on.British medical students going to Uni my step daughter had top marks and couldn't get in, also they would scrap tuition.fees for student nurses.

I would like to hear what the protesters said/shouted out before I pass judgement. I noticed a large number of people recording the incident on their phones so it should not be too difficult to release a full account.

Why?? What does it matter what she said?
Violence aimed at anyone, because of what they say, is simply NEVER acceptable.
Hecklers and protesters turn up at all events, it’s expected. Violence isn’t. None of the women were a “threat” and there was more than enough security there.

Of course it matters what she said, and also the manner in which she said it. Apparently there were four hecklers placed in different parts of the hall, intent on creating a disturbance. She was asked to leave, resisted arrest and was intent on creating a disturbance, to be filmed and distributed.
I don't know what sort of political meetings you attend, but I have never seen anyone behaving in that way at the meetings and hustings I have attended, and there have been strong views expressed.

Great post LemonJam

Neither have I easzybee, seen hecklers being attacked so violently.
Makes you wonder, what do those Reform delegates actually stand for?
Save our women?
Law and order?

Fact check, from AI,

Reform's UK annual conference draws significantly SMALLER crowds than a mainstream Labour Party conference.

Peacelilydilly: I guess it depends what is the success criteria for the Reform UK conference. Personally I don't think the conference has been a success for Farage or his party; I wonder what he thinks. It was mired in controversy before and after and has not had many positive outcomes. Forthcoming Farage and Reform UK poll ratings will be of interest, i.e. whether personal and party poll ratings increase or continue to decrease. Plus, Farage has had to sack 2 of his closest aids and there may be an extension to current police investigation.

This all strengthens concerns whether Farage and his party are able to transition for an insurgent party to a fully professional, legally functioning party, that is able to effectively govern the country. My personal view is no though I accept that opinions will vary. But he will need a majority vote to win a GE and Farage is currently struggle to maintain any kind of momentum towards that end.

As admitted on the Channel 4 footage on Thursday night by his aids, Reform UK struggles and is currently unable to attract UK business donors. The reasons why are obvious.

What do I think should have happened to the bystanders who attacked the woman?

1) In the moment that other security guards should have stopped them and removed them.
2) That Farage should not condone such behaviour and should call it out as unacceptable and will not be tolerated at future Reform conferences and events
3) That the bystanders who assaulted the woman face police scrutiny and investigation.

Reference to prison early release scheme, put together by the Conservative Party and now being implemented by LP (revised) is a complex issue and should not minimise or detract from the violent assault on this woman. In that scenario public protection involves probation services, tagging and effective community support on early release. Protection of women by stopping violent male offenders already in the community is also a complex issue in terms of early release as a result of arrested offenders due to lack of prison space to safely admit them to prison on remand. So currently they remain at. risk in the community on bail. Tandem risk. Early release makes prison space available to remove those offenders awaiting trail from the community and admit them to the prison. Not possible without early release meanwhile.

I have no idea what Reform UK's detailed policies are around matters you mention , ie what are the party's detailed, costed policies? However, if Reform UK fails to protect women present in their own conference hall, for me that undermines my trust that Reform UK will do it outside a conference hall as words do not trump actions.

Medical student uni places are capped by successive governments as limited space to teach students in hospitals alongside fundability limits. What is Reform UK's detailed proposal on medical student places? Or for that matter what is Reform UK's policy position on the NHS generally? I have no idea. Reform UK's policy agenda is small and narrow and has huge gaps. As Farage has just sacked Reform UK head of policy- James Orr- I have little confidence this will improve any time soon!

This is what the young woman with blonde hair said:

You’re backed by billionaires to serve the super rich. You want to cut rights for working people, to hand power to your wealthy mates. You’re selling us out to the highest bidder. How dare you claim to represent us?

All true.

If Farage had any genuine quick-wittedness about him he could have come back with a cogent argument. But he isn’t quick-witted. He has a script of tired clichés and can only resort to cheap put-downs and pre-planned graphics. Boring, boring boring.

He has no dialogue, could never perform at the dispatch box in any meaningful way, engage into debate, answer questions. We’ve seen him run away from debate before. Under scrutiny, he resorts to anger and personal insults.

He could never do what Burnham did last week, speaking on numerous issues, answering question after question for hours, because Farage doesn’t have the interests of the country at heart. His only interest is himself and how much money he can make. All he has done in the lead up to Brexit and since is tap into the racism that sits just below the surface in many people.

Cooling, the man who attacked both women, is a racist. His social media proves it.

If arrested and charged, Cooling’s behaviour would probably be considered ABH with medium culpability (not pre-planned) and a low level of physical harm.

The sentencing starting point for that would be a high level community order. That can be up to 300 hours of unpaid work, tagged curfew for up to two years and banned from specific locations and prohibitions of certain actions e.g. not allowed to attend another Reform event.

He's 64 so isn't pensionable age. We don't know what the stick is for, a temporary or permanent disability. It didn't seem to hamper him from getting stuck in so DWP might be keen to look at any benefits he's claiming. He's the kind of person Reform would like to withdraw benefits from anyway.

Agree Graphite- Farage has neither the capacity, intelligence, stamina, or detailed grasp of politics or policy agenda to face questions in the HoC on numerous issues as did Andy Burnham last week.

Farage was filmed by Channel 4 undercover investigators in a Clacton gazebo, drinking champagne and eating oysters with what he thought was a US business man and his son. He thanked them both for their finical support knowing such support would be illegal. He said and admitted other matters of concern.

When interviewed by Laura Keunsburg and his words put back to him for comment and scrutiny- he responded he wasn't listening, he was tired, that he leaves compliance concerns to others as he is not a compliance kind of guy.

There you have it- in his own words. He has little regard for compliance with the law, little regard for detail, is getting on and does not have the stamina needed to be a PM on a daily basis, does not listen and is more likely to be focused on eating oysters and drinking champagne than grapple with the responsibilities of a job of being a Prime Minister.

Ergo he has neither the skills, qualities, stamina or values to effectively govern a country.

Farage is already planning an exit strategy by saying his family wanted him to leave politics. So if, and hopefully when, it all starts to fall apart, he can turn round and say he's taking his family's advice and will leave. A useful excuse rather than admit he's done anything wrong.