Preparation for war

And how many times during the cold war, in other words. our childhood, did we hear the same warnings?

Certainly, with Trump in the White House and Putin in the Kremlin war does seem quite close, but perhaps we should remember that despondancy kills!

By all means make hard copies of any and all vital documents you these days only have on your computer, make sure you have a good stock of tinned and dried food in the house, and remember to eat some it before its date stamp warns you it is too old and then replace it. If you do not already have fire extinguishers in your house and smoke alarms, a good first aid kit, a battery operated radio, and some good battery operated torches then get some.

If you want to do more, take a first aid refresher course, or brush up your Morse code and semiphore flags.

THEN STOP WORRYING!

I remember during Covid there was a run on various objects. As soon as they announced shortage,whoosh, everyone rushed to the shops and made it come true by stockpiling. We were short of toilet paper at one stage and they limited people to 1 package! We were isolated for years in Victoria with our strange government. Even had helicopters checking we weren’t driving after dark. Disgusting and they got away with it. Don’t let these bs rule your lives !

I understand that in Finland it is a legal requirement to have three days' worth of food, water and medicine 'just in case', and think that maybe we should move towards that here. I'm not suggesting that everyone should have to add £100 to their shopping bill, but if there were a date set by which everyone is expected to have at least a small box of contingency items, people could add to it by spending an extra couple of pounds a week.

The alternative is that in the event of an emergency those who haven't prepared will take up the time and resources of the government/forces, and there will be runs on supplies that have made it to the shops.

Obviously we can't have stocks that would last for years, but I think that aiming for being able to last a week or two without shopping is reasonable, and can be done a step at a time. I don't mean putting by enough for three square meals a day each, but a tin of tuna or a pouch of rice and beans a day would prevent starvation and would fit in a box or bag under the bed. Water is more difficult, of course, as it is bulky.

Not necessarily a war preparation, but in case of severe weather, illness or drought.

I've had a stash of revolving perishables since Brexit when we were told how badly that would affect our food imports. Then, again during lockdown. I've upped it recently apropos of government guidance. Yes! hope for the best, prepare for the worst. My research tells me that tinned food can be eaten way after the prescribed sell by dates, because apart from the occasional tin of baked beans and tuna and using chick peas, kidney beans and tinned tomatoes in recipes, I can't say I'd choose to eat tinned food alone, it's like a nuclear deterrent rationale, it may be necessary but we don't want to use it. I never quite know how far to go with these warnings, I've also got a good supply of bottled water; Too much focus on toilet rolls, they'd be the least of our worries. So do we keep adding more, because stocks would of course dwindle if any crisis went on too long.

I think I worry the most about the younger generations and the state of the world, when I voice this to my husband his mantra tends to be "it's always been this way" The Cold War, The Cuban Missile Crisis, all of that kind of went over my head at the time I was still in junior school. Just as well really! There's much more to deal with now for a younger generation, in the advancements of technology and how those could be used by hostile states to undermine stability. I agree with others, possibly what's coming down the line won't be like the previous world wars, although of course there are flash points in the world where armed combat takes place. I think we may expect Putin to cut our power lines and wreak havoc that way. We, as a country since the time of Cameron have been very complacent in running down our armed forces and defense spending. Still! our defense budget is nothing near where it should be anyone would think we live in a benign world, and we have a reasonable Gorbachev type Russian leader in the Kremlin when we had that brief hiatus of good relations between Russia and the west, but now not only do we have a meglomaniac there but now in the White House too. Previously at least there was some sort of facade of a steadying hand from the US, even if subliminally they were all over interfering in out countries politics. I also think it will only be a matter of time before Xi moves in on Taiwan. I think he's quietly sitting back and observing all the gigantic f**k ups the other world leaders are making and then make his move by stealth.

monica I meant the world 😊

Not us sensible personages.

I wish everyone would calm down

No one here is getting wound up about it. We are just facing up to the new reality: that in the modern age of computers and AI, unless you want to physically take over or control a very specific area of land, war between developed nations, North America, Europe, many countries bordering the Pacific basin will be fought online and by sabotage and subversion.

The aim will be to gain mastery over other states without a physical invasion. Yes, Russia wants to occupy and rebuild 'old' Russia, but he does not want to do what Hitler and Napoleon tried to do, and actually physically occupy all of Europe or America, but he wants to be top dog., as Trump does, but he is already running Trump and fomenting the break-up of American society into divisive groups. he is now trying to do the same in Europe.

Trump is trying to do the same thing in the Middle East in his war on Iran, but Putin is being successful, Trump is just going in deeper and deeper and in the end it will destroy him.

I think the idea is that if we’ve all made arrangements to survive for a few days, the authorities can concentrate on getting things moving rather than having to get supplies to the unprepared.

I understand your fear, and share it to an extent, but at the same time I think it makes sense to prepare for less worrying possibilities, such as storms causing power cuts, or Covid preventing us (as individuals) from being able to leave the house for a while. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

Excuse my ignorance, but how do we know that if there is a cyber attack(s), the disruption will last for a few days? Even if it’s short-lived, it could be absolute panic/chaos/disruption etc etc on a major scale which is exactly what is intended by Putin. How do we know that things will then gradually return to normal after a few days? Is this El Niño weather effect we’re being informed to “expect” at some point actually war/cyber attack and not a weather phenomenon? Is that why we’re been advised to stock up? The whole thing is terrifying. I have children and grandchildren - as many of you will have - and I’m living in fear for the whole family and indeed for all of us.

This is a very informative piece from a serious preper.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0031k0m

I think there is probably more than a little cause for concern - governments don't waste precious money on testing phone alarms and educating people about being prepared without good reason. However, no matter how well individual households prepare, there are going to be surprises we hadn't even thought about (and this time I think it'll be more serious than a scarcity of lavatory paper! It makes sense to have enough basic supplies to fall back on but, unless we own a self-sufficient smallholding (or have already been preparing for several years), we're not likely to have enough goods (or survival knowledge) to last more than a season or two. When it all runs out, the really nasty stuff will hit the fan. I have no confidence in the Russians to depose Putin and, like Trump and a couple of other world leaders, he's not going to desist until he conks out, one way or another. I think we have a doughty reckoning coming and we've been too soft for too long to be able to cope well. Sometimes I'm really glad to be the age I am; it's the generations coming up behind us I feel sorry for.

I see that the U.K. is to help the Saudis in defence against the Houthis.

Unfortunately it makes complete economic sense when looking at the geography of the area.

I wish everyone would calm down!

Eternal vigilance has been sadly lacking in recent years.

It is all getting a tad worrying for my liking

Many in this thread have been underestimating Russia for 4 yrs, with conventional weapons NATO could have overwhelmed Russia easily but that didn't happen. Now weaponry has changed Russia has weaponized the economy he is confident enough to threaten the Baltic states knowing that with US weakened by the Iran war NATO has limited resources to respond.

UK and Europe is very weak we would find it difficult to respond to an attack, it's not just Russia thats the problem China will supply them with whatever technology they need to make low cost smart weapons. China itself is unassailable they ignore sanctions and any military action is unthinkable. We really need a settlement in Ukraine if it does escalate bombing Russia into submission is going to cost Europe massively

As I have said before, I have always had a small surplus, and an 'emergency box' which has been variously ridiculed and raided over the years. I am not preparing for war - to be honest, if that happened I would rather go up in the first blast - but I am thinking about how we could go to ground for a week or so if there were power cuts, water supply interruptions or similar. Maybe natural forces, maybe malice, but I feel happier knowing I am prepared.

I have bought extra items, and plan to store them all in a large bag, or maybe clear out an under-bed drawer for the purpose. I have a wind-up solar powered radio, a power pack, two sizes of batteries, camping lanterns and a head torch. Oh, and one of those plastic long lighter things. I will put in a few foodstuffs, although the kitchen cupboards would keep us going for some time. If we had to leave the house, I could take the packs of lentil casserole and tuna salads with us, though - they wouldn't need heating and would be relatively tasty and better than nothing. I have been adding things like Imodium, paracetamol and sticking plasters, and have a four pack of loo roll in there, despite the numerous ones in the bathroom and boot room cupboards. I could donate them if there were a scarcity. I've ordered a pack of playing cards to arrive with my next grocery order, as in a power cut we'd be without TV or music .

I have 36 litres of water and a camping stove (with gas), and plenty of lentils, rice and pasta in the pantry as a matter of course.

In the absence of rioting and looting we'll be fine for weeks, but realistically if others don't 'prep' and shortages bite, it will be everyone for themselves, and two older people in the centre of a relatively wealthy town will be vulnerable.

I am considering asking the neighbours if they want to share numbers in case of emergency. We are mostly older people, and there are two widows in our small street, so I think it would make sense. If they haven't prepared I'd happily share what we have, as IMO if 'things' go on for long enough for us to run out there will either be central intervention or we'd just be deferring the inevitable.

It's just my way, though. I also have six baskets on a spare bed - one for each of my children, their partners, my husband and miscellaneous, and am adding Christmas presents to each as I find them. I like to spread the cost and cut the stress of it all by doing things gradually. September was aways my 'return to work' date when I started collecting stocking fillers, and I have continued the tradition.

It isn't a question of preparing for war, we are already at war. Not a traditional guns and bombing war but a shadow war, fought through computers, through disinformation, through recruiting useful idiots (disaffected young men on their computers obsessed with violence,) to commit crimes that will, they hope, cause civil unrest, industrial sabotage (cutting undersea pipelines and cables), sending out drones to to buzz air bases and navy ships at sea.

Putin knows that if he commits any act of violence against a NATO nation, he will be precipitated into a war he can only lose, so he is running a shadow war, working to precipitate civil violence whether through agent provocateurs, encouraging lone wolf acts of violence, or infiltrating groups, like those new well organised balaclava wearing mobs we have seen recently or, if he could do it, taking out major industries or sections of the economy by infiltrating their computers and putting in 'kill' software.

I know this sounds like the stuff conspiracy theories are made of but DD works in one of the key industries that Putin or any other hacker would love to crash because of the damage it would do to the economy and the inconvenience, to put to mildly, it would cause millions of people.

In her opinion, what he would like to do, is something like disrupt the electricity in a region, say East Anglia, when I say disrupt, I mean totally stop all power supply in the chosen region so completely that water supply would be compromised(pumps not working), mobile phones would cease operating as the masts would have no electricity. Obviously within a few days everything would gradually get back to normal, but just think of the chaos, and the anger that it had happened.

We have seen in the last 2 weeks the chaos that can be caused by a minor glitch in air traffic control, no, not the Russians - this time, but imagine a major computer failure and the system is down for days. Or the banking industry have their core systems crashed?

Those leaflets about preparing for extreme weather conditions are actually asking us to be prepared for what may happen to us during this shadow war. Major shutdowns and disruption to that invisible network of computers systems that now run our lives. None will last more than a few days, although some problems may be longer lasting.

I am now thinking more seriously about prepping, at least buying another torch and more batteries.

Said on Sky News that Russia are preparing lots of hospital beds for potential military injuries. I can’t even think about this and will have to avoid the news even more. Everything goes from bad to worse to unthinkable. How did the world come to this? Why can’t we all just work together to tackle climate change and be nice to each other.

There is no right to absolute free speech in Australia for foreign nationals though, so he wouldn’t be able to communicate controversial political views. I can’t see him fading quietly into the background.

On the other hand Casdon, he seems to have acquired a lot of dosh.

I doubt that Australia will welcome an unemployed controversial right wing politician, it’s tough to move there unless you have a protected occupation that they are short of.

Whitewavemark2

If something like this does happen, I very much hope that the security powers have people like Farage and cohorts very much in their sights.

I wouldn’t trust him one bit.

If UK goes to war I reckon Farage will go straight to Australia . He's got family connections there.

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Basgetti

Putin is in no financial position to wage war on the wider world. His great ally, Iran, has been diminished. He’s feeling increasingly cornered and behaving rashly as a consequence, that is all. A few incursions by drone over neighbouring NATO borders does not a world war make.
The “West” would do well to provide greater support to Ukraine and put an end to Putin’s power for once and for all.

If ever there were a time for the exhausted, bereaved, suppressed people of Russia to back an opposition leader, it’s now.

Yes!!!!

Basgetti

Absolutely, David. A cyber attack or cutting power lines is the greatest threat.

I think, though, with thoughts of hardship and lost loved ones, that Nanna was referring to a more traditional, troops on the ground and bombers in the sky scenario?
I think that extremely unlikely.

We, too, could cause cyber/infrastructure for Russia.

No comparison, we don't have secret police to keep the population in order, nor do we have the stoic acceptance of hardship the the Russian people have always endured. They had a few years of relative freedom after the Soviet empire collapsed, that faded fast, now it's a bad as it always was, and Putin has the power over them that he wants.
With China supplying him with technology in exchange for oil a serious enemy.

were paid

Trump will not help Europe because he is cahoots with the Russians one way or another.
Trump jr’s extravagant after wedding parties was paid, it is said, by one of Putin’s friends.

I have just brought a windup radio.