Another reason to not have a death penalty

I am not unwilling or unable to google Smileless. Glad to hear you now appear to accept the AMA guidelines- or at lest not argue with them. I am not currently arguing with you on any matters either.

I support what Syracute googled and quoted directly at 15.54.

You are entitled to post or not post, whatever you like, whatever personal views you hold on the matter - as are all posters. 😊

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Albert Pierrepoint was a master at the long drop. Efficient and effective.

Great.

Are you for real?

Why do you mention one particular criminal?

WithNobsOnIt

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Albert Pierrepoint was a master at the long drop. Efficient and effective.

Not heard his name mentioned for years. Still regarded as the executioner par excellence by many older people. Albert was a legend to them..

What? I have never met anybody in my life who regarded him as a legend.

I also support what Syracute googled LemonJam because I've never disputed the AMA guidelines and as I've said, what I've posted are not my views but I suppose if you did google whether nor not doctors have ever placed IV's in those sentenced to death, you'd have to concede that they have.

I'm done with this particular aspect of the discussion and wont be responding to you again.

Smileless I comfortable with you responding or not responding to any of my posts 😊

Just googled Albert Pierrepoint who excited between 435 and 600 people in his 25 year career as a hangman that ended in 1956.

Reading Still regarded as the executioner par excellence by many older people. Albert was a legend to them sends shivers up my spine- what a legacy 🥱

executed

LemonJam

Reading Still regarded as the executioner par excellence by many older people. Albert was a legend to them sends shivers up my spine- what a legacy

Knowing next to nothing about him, I did a Google-AI search...

Apparently, he admitted that his life's work left him with a deep sense of regret. He famously concluded that capital punishment was morally unjustified and completely ineffective - in his 1974 autobiography, Executioner: Pierrepoint.

He wrote, "The fruit of my experience has this bitter after-taste: that I do not now believe that any of the hundreds of executions I carried out has in any way acted as a deterrent against future murder."

I seriously have had to re read this. People are now in the thrall of an executioner.
But only for certain crimes apparently.

The effect that the death penalty has on those who have to be involved in the execution is IMO enough to convince me that it is inhumane in every single way.

America is the only Western country to regularly use the death penalty. Some American schools still use coporal punishment, again a practice abandoned decades ago in most other countries. Yet the country still has one of the highest murder rates in the world and many of its cities are dangerous places to live.

Many Americans believe that the answer to gun crime is to own more guns rather than to reduce the number of guns and that the death penalty reduces the murder rate, they are wrong on both accounts but a society that can elect someone like Trump as president, twice, clearly has some very strange values. Thank goodness that I don't live there.

I feel many of us are muddying the water between ‘deterrent’ (doubtful) and ‘punishment’ (absolute).

I don’t think so. The argument is about the type of punishment the perpetrators should receive.

Most countries in the western world do not have capital punishment for very good and sound reasons.

I agree FGT's a lot of responses are that as a deterrent, the death penalty doesn't work.

I agree. Justice should be aimed at preserving public safety, and at rehabilitation ---not Revenge!

Luckygirl3 On the side subject of religion that has been raised on this thread - the statement Christianity isn't terrifying is one I cannot get behind and would cite the Crusades, Northern Ireland, catholic guilt and the misery this has caused generations of people, retrograde hierarchies, evangelism and swamping other cultures with beliefs, the covering up of sexual abuse - I could go on.... Every religion is capable of being terrifying because it deals in fundamentals and is drawn towards fundamentalism. I am fully aware of the apparently benign brand of Christianity practised by my many friends, but that is not the whole story sadly.

Perhaps many evangelicals are zealots? Interesting explanation.

baptistnews.com/article/the-fantastical-world-of-the-new-evangelical-zealots/

Whitewavemark2

I don’t think so. The argument is about the type of punishment the perpetrators should receive.

Most countries in the western world do not have capital punishment for very good and sound reasons.

I think FGT2 might have a point... in the sense that there are those who espouse the DP because they (mistakenly) believe it is a deterrent. I don't know why this myth persists, but it does - I've certainly heard it repeated.

The moral argument surrounding the DP can be made by both those who know it's not a deterrent as well as those who mistakenly believe it is - either for or against.

The question is - how many of those in the first category would oppose the DP if they were able to be convinced that it didn't work as a deterrent?

It is not a simple procedure putting a living person to death. It requires excellent knowledge of drugs and of current state of health.

One of my dogs did not survive her euthanising injection but suffered unnecessarily because her veins were too collapsed to carry the injection. Needless to say I did not patronise that particular vet again, and subsequent dogs got sedation before the lethal injection.

That's awful Caleo . It happened with one of my mum's dogs who thankfully wasn't there to witness it but my brother was.

He'd had a heart attack which had caused his veins to collapse so as with yours, they were unable to carry the injection.

Yes, and also capital punishment brutalises those who carr.y it out

foxie48

Many Americans believe that the answer to gun crime is to own more guns rather than to reduce the number of guns and that the death penalty reduces the murder rate, they are wrong on both accounts but a society that can elect someone like Trump as president, twice, clearly has some very strange values. Thank goodness that I don't live there.

The reason why murders with guns are so rare over here is gun ownership is very heavily restricted and owning a firearm illegally carries a long prison sentence. Obviously killers can access knives quite easily, but our murder rate is far lower than America and has actually fallen in recent years. Also sentences for murder have increased significantly, with minimum sentences of 25 years becoming common.
I think someone who has committed a series of really brutal murders could think that by being executed and suddenly finding God before they're executed is a quick way out. Giving the murderer a whole life tariff and facing hostility and retribution from other prisoners is a much better deterrent.

Murder rate in the US last year was 0.059 per thousand and 0.009 per thousand in the UK. Clearly the death penalty is not much of a deterrent.

From the Telegraph just now:

“Christa Pike, the death-row inmate who survived a botched execution in Tennessee, is “conscious and speaking”.

Pike, 50, had been in a critical condition and was likely brain-damaged after being given two doses of pentobarbital on Sept 30.

In a statement, Pike’s lawyer said: “Against all odds, Christa Pike is conscious, speaking, and continues to receive critical medical care.

“Despite the severe damage she endured to her arms, she is still handcuffed and shackled to the bed. Her recovery is medically unprecedented. Her prognosis remains unclear but, at a minimum, we expect a long recovery.”

Witnesses described hearing her “snoring” and “moaning” more than two hours after the injection.

Pike apparently said: “My arm feels like it’s about to burst open,” according to Tori Gessner, a local TV news anchor who attended the botched execution.”

That sounds now like state sanctioned torture.

Macaydia of course it's complicated, nowhere have I suggested that it's not. 2020 -2025 in the US there were 294 school shootings, it is normal practice now for schools to have armed guards on the door and to practice how to deal with gun carrying intruders. Most of these intruders are disgruntled students and they bring with them guns that are in the home including automatic weapons that are capable of mass shootings. After the Port Arthur massacre in 1996, Australia changed it's laws on gun ownership and offered a buy back scheme to citizens who owned guns, since then mass shootings have been pretty rare. The UK took similar measure after Dunblane whereas in the US it's estimated there are over 120 guns for every person ie more guns than people! Absolute craziness.