This Is Not Propaganda

A lot of people on this site express their concern at a country like Russia taking over an area of the Ukraine, a neighbouring country, even though, I believe, it was originally part of a combined territory but, on the other hand, seem quite happy for a corrupt, power mad organisation like the EU taking over the UK by stealth!! I think a closer examination of the facts needs to fall much closer to home.

Oooh yes. Most of our political news is designed to keep a capitalist government in power.

I read some of it, but then google search for opposite perspectives. I trust nothing any of the papers OR the news (including the BBC) says.

Some of us are aware because we read some of the alternative press online - such as the Daily Kos.

A good example quizqueen

A UK voter who posts "a corrupt, power mad organisation like the EU taking over the UK by stealth" may not realise where that piece of propaganda came from - it's straight out of Putin's playbook.

Capitalism=====Free markets.
Communism======Centralized control of industry.

Which is your preference GagaJo ?

Those are very clunky, facile, very over simplistic definitions EV. I support neither.

A brief (ish) note on Ukraine. Its national government in Kiev were defeated by Ukrainian Bolsheviks who in 1919 established the country as the Ukraine Soviet Socialist Republic. In December 1922 it was one of the founding members of the USSR. At first Russia allowed Ukranian language and culture but in the 1930s a progamme of "russification" began.

In 1932 and 1933 millions of people starved to death in a devastating famine. The Encyclopedia Britannica estimates the deaths at 6 - 8 million of whom 4 -5 million were Ukranians.

There were 15 separate countries in the former USSR, which are now independent to a greater or lesser degree. Going back as far as Peter the Great, if not earlier, Russia has always tried to expand its empire. I'm reading Simon Sebag Montefiore's book "The History of the Romanovs 1613 to 1918" which details the various military campaigns of the Russians during that period. And there were many.

So, I don't think that Ukraine was happy to be part of the USSR. And unlike the EU, the member countries did not vote to join (apart from the Bolsheviks)

Same old, same old Varian. Boring! Turn the record over please!

Why's it boring to remind people that the EU's relationship with member countries is nothing like Ukraine's relationship with Russia. It's a ridiculous suggestion and Varian is quite right to point out how that kind of sentiment is repeated so often people begin to believe it's true.

In any case, Varian is perfectly entitled to an opinion.

Name one 100% free market country in the world.

And one which is 100% centrally controlled.

Thank you for the link, varian.

Peter Pomerantsev’s new book "This Is Not Propaganda" attempts to make sense of the media’s increasingly incoherent landscape. Pomerantsev – a writer and senior fellow at the LSE’s Institute of Global Affairs – charts disinformation campaigns from Manila to St. Petersburg, exploring the “wreckage” of our online world as well as the “sparks of sense” that can be rescued from it. A leading chronicler of the disinformation crisis, Pomerantsev makes visible how certain actors are creating a new normal that places attention over accuracy, emotion over reason. In the extract below, Pomerantsev provides a compelling and rare insight into the structure and methodology of a Russian troll farm.

tankmagazine.com/tank/2019/08/pomerantsev/

Real journalism is different from the gossip, punditry and clickbait that dominates today’s news. Real journalism, in the words of Joseph Pulitzer, is the painstaking reporting that will “fight for progress and reform, never tolerate injustice or corruption, [and] always fight demagogues”. Pulitzer said journalism must always “oppose privileged classes and public plunderers, never lack sympathy with the poor, always remain devoted to the public welfare, never be satisfied with merely printing news, always be drastically independent, never be afraid to attack wrong, whether by predatory plutocracy or predatory poverty”.

Article in The Guardian by Gerry Sanders

Bernie Sanders, not Gerry Sanders

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/27/bernie-sanders-attacks-media-press-fair-or-trump-2020-democrats

OP
" I wonder how many voters in the UK, the US and elsewhere are even aware of the powerful influence of political propaganda and misinformation, or, if they have heard of it, just dismiss it out of hand as "fake news".
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I would think the voters in the UK and indeed World wide ( accept countries under communist/dictatorships) are well aware of '' 'Fake News' which is by the way the exact same thing as 'Misinformation'.

Lord knows even on Gransnet some posters have banged on about fake news/ disinformation for ' YEARS' and called out links to sites that are known to be political propaganda machines or using fake news/disinformation.

The ' dark ' side of social media as we all know has the capability to be dangerous.

' Over politicising ' and ' fake news/misinformation ' on social media is a massive problem as it is nothing short of propaganda from who know where and by whom. We see that even on Gransnet when links are put forward to some dubious sites .

POGS Tue 17-Apr-18 12:32:03
At the risk of being told I am posting twice I admit I am posting twice as threads overlaps each other

www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-41982569

How Russian bots appear in your timeline'

But who is behind these bots and how do they operate?

"Many bot accounts have been traced to the Internet Research Agency, in St Petersburg. The Russian government-backed agency reportedly runs social media accounts disseminating "disinformation".

I keep banging on about fake news/bots / links to goodness knows who but it is a fact there should be caution applied at times as to who we 'choose' to obtain our information from.
Cyber attacks no doubt have already taken place and no doubt will be scaled up.

I wrote down a comment from a excellent commentator on ' This Week ' talking about Cambridge Analitica and the wider issues connected with cyber attacks 'mining' etc. He said-

" The reason why Google/Facebook are FREE is because you are ' the product '.

We can no doubt also become ' the product ' simply by opening ourselves up to subversive sites even by doing something we may think is safe such as opening up links or using search engines for example

It certainly is a worry just how easily we have our interests harvested , open ourselves up for possible cyber attacks but it has been going on for ages and I don't know how it could be stopped because our era dictates the use of technology and that's the bugger up that goes with it.
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POGS you may think the voters in the UK and indeed World wide ( accept countries under communist/dictatorships) are well aware of '' 'Fake News' which is by the way the exact same thing as 'Misinformation'. However I do not believe most voters are as well informed or as interested in these things as those of us who post on the News and Politics forum of GN.

This is not a criticism of folk who take less notice of politics and current affairs. People have different interests and priorities and so I believe many, if not most voters are unaware of the extent of this manipulation of their data for political ends and the way they are influenced to vote.

quizqueen, in what way or ways is the EU taking over the UK?

I still await an answer to my question to your assertion that 3 police officers had been murdered by non UK individuals......may be a long wait.