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Who’s advice should we take ?

(70 Posts)
GranddadBrian Sat 30-May-20 11:50:17

Who’s advice should we take, the political establishment in whom we are fast losing confidence because of bubbling inertia in decision making. Such as ignoring the advice of Directors of Social services and major Care Organisation on the likelihood of cross infections in Care Home in a pandemic. Alternatively the expert’s who say relaxation of lockdown is too early and dangerous ?

ladymuck Sat 30-May-20 11:54:15

It's much too soon to start behaving normally. We should do the sensible thing and continue to take the precautions we have been following.

flaxwoven Sat 30-May-20 12:15:56

I agree, the information is very confusing and I tend to listen to the doctors on the front line. We are staying 2m away from everyone. I go for daily walks locally and we have the garden. DH goes to the supermarket once a week with mask and gloves on.

MaizieD Sat 30-May-20 12:21:11

I'd go for the experts, myself.

We now know exactly what the government thinks of keeping the population safe and it isn't very nice. They don't give a monkeys...

Devorgilla Sat 30-May-20 12:22:06

I'll stick with the professionals and continue more or less as I have been doing. Not much of a change in my lifestyle anyway. It will be nice to see the daughters and grandchildren but we will maintain sensible precautions even then.

Calendargirl Sat 30-May-20 12:23:19

We do what we are advised to do by the government and their expert advisers.

MayBee70 Sat 30-May-20 12:55:57

You mean the expert advisors that are now speaking out and saying the government is ignoring their advice? Or the ones that stand on the podium and are forbidden from answering questions?

Purplepixie Sat 30-May-20 13:08:07

I think we should live by our own instincts now and buggar the politicians. We are still going to keep wearing the gloves for shopping, clean all the stuff once we bring it home and keep well away from hugging people. I think 2025 sound like a good plan for venturing out.

shysal Sat 30-May-20 13:17:33

I heard some excellent advice from a TV doctor the other day. She said she was worried about garden meet-ups, and feels that each household should take their own crockery, cutlery, food, drink and especially sauce bottles. Theses items are obviously a source of cross contamination even when distancing is observed. Then add thorough cleaning of hands and all surfaces each time the toilet is used.

25Avalon Sat 30-May-20 13:30:27

Own instinct or rather common sense is best especially if you are over a certain age. There is too much conflicting advice out there and has been since the very start. Scientists don’t seem to be able to agree primarily because this is a new virus and we are learning things all the time. We stayed home before lockdown and we will continue to stay home now until treatment or a vaccine are found. Trust no one only yourself and keep safe.

Pantglas2 Sat 30-May-20 13:33:36

Here in Wales we get to listen to the lovely Labour experts telling us we don’t need to wear masks in public and meet any number of people from another household in public within 5 miles......

Meanwhile we have scousers drowning in our lakes, hooray Henry s from the Home Counties flying to our airstrips so that they can go to the beach......

Idiots come in all colours don’t they!

Calendargirl Sat 30-May-20 15:39:59

It sounds a lot less hassle to stay at home shysal than be carting the contents of your pantry to someone else’s home.

Calendargirl Sat 30-May-20 15:40:49

And be cleaning their bathroom as well.

Oopsadaisy3 Sat 30-May-20 15:44:46

We are very fortunate that DH retired on Friday and we can now do what we want to do and feel is right and not have to go back to work because the Government or Experts tell us we have to.
I feel so sorry for those of working age (or have school children) who have to do as they are told or they will lose their jobs, especially if they have no confidence in the advice or it conflicts with advice from a different set of so called experts.

GranddadBrian Sat 30-May-20 16:08:28

I thought it would be interesting to look at the Gov advice since the start of Coronavirus 19

Three months ago, as coronavirus began to gain a foothold in countries across Europe, Downing Street press office said
they were still confident that the risk to the British public remained low.
However, by the February 25, the World Health Organisation said the virus had already killed thousands in China and that it was spreading through northern Italy, however, at the time there were just 13 confirmed cases and no deaths in the UK. In the UK our government ordered hospitals to prepare for an influx of patients, its advice to some of the country’s most vulnerable people — elderly residents of care or nursing homes — was that they were “very unlikely” to be infected.

That guidance remain in place over the next two-and-a-half weeks, as the number of coronavirus cases in the UK exploded. By the time the advice was withdrawn on March 13 and replaced with new guidances, there were now 594 confirmed cases, and it was too late.

By the May 1, of the 33,365 total confirmed deaths at least 12,526 — or 38% — were care home residents, according to the latest estimates from the Office of National Statistics (ONS).
While the UK government has defended its handling of the issue, care home staff and experts have placed the high death toll on the prioritization of hospitals over these facilities and failure to listen to earlier warnings about likelihood of infectious diseases spreading quickly in Care Homes.
Others have blamed the slow rollout of testing, the government’s alleged pursuit of “herd immunity” (which it denies seeking) and its failure to order a lockdown early enough.

When you look at the facts somebody at Number 10 was failing, was it the PM or his advisers ?

AGAA4 Sat 30-May-20 16:18:17

I am inclined to believe the scientists and doctors in ICU who believe lockdown is being eased too early and there will be a new surge in infections.
This is bad news for those who have been shielding and may have to stay at home longer.

Cindersdad Sat 30-May-20 19:48:57

I'd take advice from the scientist over The PM and his chums. Politicians are too inclined to make popular decisions to curry favour with the electorate. They have mishandled Covid-19 and blamed scientists for advice some of which they went against or ignored. The Cummings debacle has further undermined scientists but Cummings is far more dangerous than you may realise.

Dominic Cummings has a populist agenda and wishes to destroy the relationship between Britain and the EU. He was the Prime mover in Vote Leave. Boris's ambition was to be PM and being part of Vote Leave gave the best route, he would be quite happy to be PM as a remainer. However he is now the puppet of the leave faction and doesn't know how to handle it. The whole situation is a mess, DC's violation of the lockdown is trivial compared to his sinister hold over the government. There is plenty of information to support my assertion. Dig around the news archives and you will find it. Write to your MP's pointing out the real and present danger, only parliament collectively can stop them. Boris is frightened to sack DC because without him he has no substance.

Cummings has to go and if Boris goes as well then so beit. It was Cummings tryimg to control Sajid Jhavid that led to his resignation, though Rishi Sunak may be OK his generous furlough scheme is building too much debt. See what "Scientists for the EU" say about Cummings and the Government.

If MP's get enough Emails about Cummings they will revolt and force him out. Few LEAVERS voted for the way Brexit is unfolding, Brexit is not fully done until the end of the transition period and the end of June is the last date for requesting an extension. The EU would let a more moderate British government cancel Brexit.

Tooting29 Sat 30-May-20 20:18:11

Read the government advice (drafted by civil service) and follow it. If you are comfortable meeting up, then don't, just because the lockdown is lifting cautiously doesn't mean you have to change if what you are doing is keeping you safe. DH and I are not going out much, I walk for exercise and stay local. Shop once a week. Socual distance. Wash my hands regularly, disinfect regularly and at all costs avoid idiots who think they know better and flour the guidance

lemongrove Sat 30-May-20 20:28:35

Exactly Tooting 👍🏻

The thing about the scientists ( and in all other countries too) is that they are genuine about what they think, in fact it may be the best advice ( scientifically speaking) to stay in lockdown for another six months.But....it can’t just be a matter of scientifically speaking, the government have the job of trying to get the economy moving again, people need to get back to work , children to their education.It’s therefore a delicate balancing act.Other countries are doing the same, they have to.

EllanVannin Sat 30-May-20 20:33:45

You wouldn't seek a plumber for a leaky bladder would you ??

MayBee70 Sat 30-May-20 20:57:56

Tooting; is that the same government advice that, in February told us that the government and NHS were well prepared to deal with the virus. And told us to carry tissues, catch your coughs and sneezes, bin the tissue and wash your hands. Told people returning from China to follow the specific advice. And then called the virus a 'germ'. Wasn't that around the time that they were reserving beds in care homes so they could send sick patients to care homes to free up hospital beds.

Tooting29 Tue 02-Jun-20 06:55:03

At the risk of being unpopular, where is personal responsibility in this pandemic. There is plenty of advice on line and it does not take too much intelligence to follow it and exercise common sense. Up your hygiene habits which is proved to be effective. Restrict movements and who you meet. Social distance. Isolate if you have the virus. It just common sense. Unfortunately many of the population do not seem to understand this, if the scenes at the beaches last weekend are anything to go by. Why anyone wants to drive for 3 hours to sit on a crowded beach is beyond me. Not to mention the strain it puts on local councils. If there is a second peak it will be the fault of the thousands of people who think its OK to flout the guidance. My principal gripe with the government is allowing unlimited travel, in England. I prefer the Welsh approach of stay local, as it allows police some enforcement. The impact on health organisations in rural areas could be significant. My other massive gripe is that the media muddle the message, bringing in experts to question everything that adds confusion to the public. The online advice is very clear, just read it and ignore the rubbish and opinion on line.

Calendargirl Tue 02-Jun-20 07:08:58

I totally agree with your post Tooting.

A big failing was allowing unlimited travel. More opportunities to exercise, yes, but driving all over the place was a big mistake. I quite agree about travelling for hours to sit on a crowded beach. Why? Just because you can doesn’t mean you should. We live half an hour’s drive from the beach, but happy to leave it to the hording masses.
Boris also should have kept quiet about barbeques, and just left it that up to six could meet in a garden.
People have interpreted that as a free for all party.

Furret Tue 02-Jun-20 07:37:35

We can only do what we feel is best to keep ourselves, friends and family safe.

Unfortunately there’s are complete idiots out there who think because they are young they are invincible and don’t give a damn about others older or more vulnerable. So don’t go where they go.

growstuff Tue 02-Jun-20 10:47:52

Listen to the scientists and doctors every time.

It's known how the virus is spread. It's also known who is at highest risk of being badly affected and there are some very convincing arguments why.

There is no such thing as "zero risk". You cannot ever guarantee that you will get through every day and wake up the next morning. However, you can take steps to minimise risk.

If leaving home would put you in a position where you would need to be close to other people, don't do it. You can check how many people in your area are symptomatic and how many likely to be infected. If 0.5% of people in your area are symptomatic, that means there's a 1 in 200 chance that somebody in a supermarket, high street, train, etc. is infected. To me, that's quite a high risk. Sometimes it's possible to keep away from other people; at other times, it's not.

Your relative risk of being badly affected is likely to affect your decision. If you're in one of the high risk groups, you'll be less inclined to take risks. If you're young and don't have one of the named underlying conditions, you might be infected, but not have any serious symptoms. Maybe that risk is worth it.

Personally, I wouldn't trust any of the politicians or "official" guidelines to tell me what day it is tomorrow. They've lied through their teeth about too much and I don't see them changing.