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Is our PM, infallible and free of any blame?

(225 Posts)
GranddadBrian Mon 06-Jul-20 22:39:59

We hear tonight that Care Homes are now responsible for not following procedures, whilst that reminds me of attitudes at Number 10., are the accusations accurate?

I realise many Seniors still believe Boris and his party are Squeaky clean and perfect, whilst the majority are now accepting nobody individuals or political party is infallible.

KaEllen Mon 06-Jul-20 22:53:39

Really? GrandadBrian, really???

This guy was elected on one topic only, and that's Brexit. He's making a mess of that, and he has made a total mess of the handling of the corona crisis. He has lied to the British people again and again; he is all bluster and hot air.

At least one expert has claimed that we could have 20000 fewer deaths if the government had introduced lockdown one week earlier. Twenty thousand. One week.

That's quite something to have on your conscience.

To respond to your actual question: it is a fact that testing was not available for care home staff and residents early on, and it is a fact that people were released from hospital into care homes without being tested for the virus. Do not blame the care homes for the government's failings.

Furret Mon 06-Jul-20 23:05:58

I don’t think you’ll find many ‘seniors’ who are fans. All but the most die hard see him for the buffoon he really is. Trouble is there are almost 45,00 whose relatives see him in a less a favourable light.

Whitewavemark2 Tue 07-Jul-20 05:29:51

I don’t think Johnson would know the truth if it batted him in the face.

He is utterly untrustworthy.

Loislovesstewie Tue 07-Jul-20 05:36:03

I consider him to be a buffoon and a one trick pony. His personal life seems to be a mess , in any other person it would be condemned but he seems to get away with that , which I really don't understand . To be clear , I don't believe in getting over invested in the sex life of anyone in the public eye , I just don't like the hypocrisy of it all. Boris behaves badly and it seems that is accepted . I can't stand him.

vegansrock Tue 07-Jul-20 05:51:17

He’s a blundering oaf who thinks he can lie his way out of scrutiny, which he has managed to do so far by virtue of having no credible opposition. He managed to fool the UKIP brigade to voting for him, but the Covid crisis has shown him up to be weak and manipulated by the shadowy figures in the wings. He’s handled this crisis appallingly, and now seeking to blame everyone else for the shambles. Those who think it’s ok to have talentless ministers who can’t run a Cobra meeting, and a PM who can only speak in infantile 3 word slogans - we will build build, build, jobs jobs jobs, etc Makes me sick, sick, sick.

growstuff Tue 07-Jul-20 06:31:06

Get your bucket, bucket, bucket ...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUz1BIWZqyA

www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xMVyfld8LE

MaizieD Tue 07-Jul-20 08:52:46

I think I know who won't be posting on this thread...

US President, Harry Truman, had a sign in his office that said "The Buck Stops Here". All national leaders would do well to follow his example.

MawB Tue 07-Jul-20 09:07:03

I would normally have no hesitation in blaming PHE or the government but was disturbed to hear on Friday from a friend’s daughter who works in a Care Home that they do not routinely test. Her Home is a lovely caring one and they have had only one case who was isolated. But she said quite blithely that staff are not tested routinely as they work shifts so some will not be around for testing and anyway they and the residents are only tested if symptomatic.
Are we still not learning?

Hetty58 Tue 07-Jul-20 09:07:43

All I can see is a desperate, pathetic and transparent 'damage limitation' attempt. Of course, shifting the blame onto others and pleading ignorance are key to that.

Surely, few people believe that it was 'accidental' harm caused when the elderly were shunted out of hospitals into care homes - without testing?

beverly10 Tue 07-Jul-20 09:17:49

KaEllen
Could have had etc etc. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

MaizieD Tue 07-Jul-20 09:25:36

It's nothing to do with hindsight. We were behind many countries in our exposure to C19 and the lessons were there to be noted and acted on. There are no excuses.

Nana3 Tue 07-Jul-20 09:25:59

The government are putting spin on what Johnson said, saying that he meant nobody knew what the procedures were.
This is so transparent, the government failed care homes massively and Johnson is a dangerous man.
To think that our lives and country are in his hands is more terrifying than the virus.

Care homes , the NHS and most of the public have been excellent in their response to the virus but not Johnson, no definitely not Johnson.

GGumteenth Tue 07-Jul-20 09:43:56

I wish you had headlined this Boris Johnson blames care homes for deaths from coronavirus GranddadBrian, because that is exactly what he did.

This man has always been held up as being erudite. I have no idea where his "learning" has taken him but blaming the care homes for the excessive deaths seems beyond the pale to me.

We discovered too many care homes didn’t really follow the procedures in the way that they could have. Can only be read one way in my opinion but I notice the weasels are out trying to re-write the meaning of this very plain sentence for him this morning.

At least he has handed KS another stick to beat him with at PMQs I suppose but I don't think it will be long before he finds a way to crawl out of attending those. As it is he can't face the Speaker or the Opposition but has to turn the hucksters behind him for bearpit noises that make him feel good.

lemongrove Tue 07-Jul-20 10:00:31

MawB

I would normally have no hesitation in blaming PHE or the government but was disturbed to hear on Friday from a friend’s daughter who works in a Care Home that they do not routinely test. Her Home is a lovely caring one and they have had only one case who was isolated. But she said quite blithely that staff are not tested routinely as they work shifts so some will not be around for testing and anyway they and the residents are only tested if symptomatic.
Are we still not learning?

It won’t be the only care home that has or had that blithe view but now they will all be saints in the eyes of some I expect.
The truth is, that few people will really know the truth about this whole care home situation. Much easier to blame a government for absolutely anything it does or says.
It’s like the teaching debacle, in that some will have moved mountains to do the right things for their residents and others haven’t bothered themselves.

Whitewavemark2 Tue 07-Jul-20 10:15:21

At the beginning of lock down the decision was made by the government to clear hospitals of the elderly in order to make room etc for covid.

There is an instruction from a Johnson’s government dated 21 March.

Testing had ceased on 12 March.

The elderly were sent out to care homes and by doing so ensured the death of 10s of thousands of old folk. They were sitting ducks.

Undoubtedly the are better care homes than others, but none of them would have made the decision to seed their homes as the government did.

petunia Tue 07-Jul-20 10:27:23

The care home situation is a tough one. Having had both parents in law in care homes and a mother in and out of respite I would like to offer a few observations

The majority of care homes are privately owned. Some by a small concern, others by chains of homes or charities. They are not generally NHS or council run these days. Qualified staff are few and far between. Many care homes having a district nurse flitting in and out and if they are lucky, a doctor allocated to the home for advice or for visits. Most of the time this is not an issue. Good social care, being warm and safe and plenty of good food and social stimulation is fine.

However, this virus thrives on prolonged contact and enclosed areas. The same with many viruses and illness. Anyone with a relative in a care home will know how noro-virus can rip through even the best home in an instant.

So it was only a matter of time before a serious virus got into the homes.

In our area several homes avoided home grown infections and deaths quite simply. Anyone with symptoms was QUICKLY quarantined. Newcomers were quarantined, people discharged from hospital were quarantined. Visitors were not allowed physical contact. Staff cared for either sick and quarantined people or fitter ones. The people in quarantine were effectively barrier nursed. The others were cared for by strict hygiene.

Wasn't social isolation recommended for everyone at the start of lock down. Anyone with symptoms had strict isolation. No mixing of households, no physical contact with a non household person. Shielding etc etc. we all heard it. Why would care homes be exempt? Its just like a family member having to leave the house for some reason, being in an risky environment and then coming home too elderly relatives with complex health issues. Or in this case,a care home thirty or so individuals who probably were classed as shielding.

While it is easy to blame the hospitals for discharging people back to the homes without testing, or the government, or Boris, perhaps the homes should have had a strict enforceable infection control policy in place for any infectious threat. Particularly homes belonging to chains or charities where polices can be written and staff fully informed . Perhaps the care home owners should think ahead and plan for the next outbreak. With care home fees ranging from £25000 to £40000 a year depending on where you live, basic, simple measures such as this can go a long way to preventing and reducing such a hideous situation.

No one comes out of this mess with a clean record, but blaming Boris is a quick fix and saves everyone looking at their own piece of the jigsaw.

Whitewavemark2 Tue 07-Jul-20 10:27:45

My MPs comment.

Peter Kyle MP
@peterkyle
To see
@BorisJohnson
victim-blame care home workers breaks my heart.

Some gave their lives by continuing to serve residents despite the PPE and testing he promised not arriving.

16,000+ dead and he blames the people who cared for them? Shocking even by his standards

Whitewavemark2 Tue 07-Jul-20 10:43:23

This

“It is quite possible to believe both that Boris Johnson is the most abject blame-shifter and that care homes are often run by Big Finance cowboys that pay staff poverty wages and treat them terribly. Because both are true.“

GGumteenth Tue 07-Jul-20 10:53:19

lemongrove

MawB

I would normally have no hesitation in blaming PHE or the government but was disturbed to hear on Friday from a friend’s daughter who works in a Care Home that they do not routinely test. Her Home is a lovely caring one and they have had only one case who was isolated. But she said quite blithely that staff are not tested routinely as they work shifts so some will not be around for testing and anyway they and the residents are only tested if symptomatic.
Are we still not learning?

It won’t be the only care home that has or had that blithe view but now they will all be saints in the eyes of some I expect.
The truth is, that few people will really know the truth about this whole care home situation. Much easier to blame a government for absolutely anything it does or says.
It’s like the teaching debacle, in that some will have moved mountains to do the right things for their residents and others haven’t bothered themselves.

You do this every time lemongrove. Either people agree with you or they must agree with the opposite extreme.

I am quite sure errors were made all round but that does not stop the government being the ones who should have made it possible - and they didn't.

It was only 4 days ago that regular testing in care homes was rolled out. Once a week testing for staff and monthly for residents.

Even Johnson's MP supporters are having trouble explaining away his wrongful slight on the majority of Care Homes and carefully reframing the words he used to say that no one knew about the issues around Covid19.

However, we did know enough to find ways of, to some extent, looking after the NHS. This was the right thing to do and was still not done quickly enough or with sufficient PPE. There was an outcry from the hospitals over this so the government was aware.

Johnson is a coward in the Trumpian mould. If this had got legs with the media he would have been happy, as you seem to be, to blame carers on minimum wage for not doing what it was his duty to provide - and he didn't.

He will not get off his lofty hook by blaming care workers or teachers. Most people understand who is culpable and who isn't. Some people will, as you do, try and shift the blame onto those who could not possibly have altered the circumstances but I do not believe that lie, or shall we be kind and call it exaggeration, will get passed a judicial review.

Froglady Tue 07-Jul-20 10:56:10

Every time I think that Boris can't get any worse he goes and proves me wrong!

Blinko Tue 07-Jul-20 11:03:03

I can't believe a PM would stoop so low as to blame those who in many cases have shelved their own living arrangements and families to live in and care for their elderly charges.

The man can surely not get any worse. Despicable!

Whitewavemark2 Tue 07-Jul-20 11:47:11

Professor Of Law

Michael Dougan
@mdouganlpool
I know "never tweet in anger". But how can anyone not be angry? To hear dedication & sacrifice of carehome staff, now smeared and debased by very Government that left them to struggle & suffer, so as to deflect political blame & prop up Johnson's "feelgood PM" whitewash? Inhuman.

lemongrove Tue 07-Jul-20 11:55:49

petunia

The care home situation is a tough one. Having had both parents in law in care homes and a mother in and out of respite I would like to offer a few observations

The majority of care homes are privately owned. Some by a small concern, others by chains of homes or charities. They are not generally NHS or council run these days. Qualified staff are few and far between. Many care homes having a district nurse flitting in and out and if they are lucky, a doctor allocated to the home for advice or for visits. Most of the time this is not an issue. Good social care, being warm and safe and plenty of good food and social stimulation is fine.

However, this virus thrives on prolonged contact and enclosed areas. The same with many viruses and illness. Anyone with a relative in a care home will know how noro-virus can rip through even the best home in an instant.

So it was only a matter of time before a serious virus got into the homes.

In our area several homes avoided home grown infections and deaths quite simply. Anyone with symptoms was QUICKLY quarantined. Newcomers were quarantined, people discharged from hospital were quarantined. Visitors were not allowed physical contact. Staff cared for either sick and quarantined people or fitter ones. The people in quarantine were effectively barrier nursed. The others were cared for by strict hygiene.

Wasn't social isolation recommended for everyone at the start of lock down. Anyone with symptoms had strict isolation. No mixing of households, no physical contact with a non household person. Shielding etc etc. we all heard it. Why would care homes be exempt? Its just like a family member having to leave the house for some reason, being in an risky environment and then coming home too elderly relatives with complex health issues. Or in this case,a care home thirty or so individuals who probably were classed as shielding.

While it is easy to blame the hospitals for discharging people back to the homes without testing, or the government, or Boris, perhaps the homes should have had a strict enforceable infection control policy in place for any infectious threat. Particularly homes belonging to chains or charities where polices can be written and staff fully informed . Perhaps the care home owners should think ahead and plan for the next outbreak. With care home fees ranging from £25000 to £40000 a year depending on where you live, basic, simple measures such as this can go a long way to preventing and reducing such a hideous situation.

No one comes out of this mess with a clean record, but blaming Boris is a quick fix and saves everyone looking at their own piece of the jigsaw.

Excellent balanced post Petunia.......which everybody on here so far seems to be studiously avoiding commenting on.
🤔

lemongrove Tue 07-Jul-20 11:57:45

Whitewavemark2

Professor Of Law

Michael Dougan
@mdouganlpool
I know "never tweet in anger". But how can anyone not be angry? To hear dedication & sacrifice of carehome staff, now smeared and debased by very Government that left them to struggle & suffer, so as to deflect political blame & prop up Johnson's "feelgood PM" whitewash? Inhuman.

It would be more balanced from Duggan to say ‘the dedication and sacrifice of some carehome staff’ !