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Shall we debate upon *Geraldine's* comment.......

(41 Posts)
jangly Wed 07-Sep-11 19:19:57

in the Abortion thread. (time 15.40.58 today)?

Teenagers, and everyone should have free access (in the bathroom cabinet no less (!)) to the morning after pill. No questions asked.

jangly Wed 07-Sep-11 19:20:55

I will start.

I am horrified.

em Wed 07-Sep-11 19:39:14

I'm saddened. If it's that easy to remedy a mistake, then how many times will the mistake be repeated? How many times will a potential life be just dumped? Surely it at least merits a bit of discussion and reflection in the hope that it won't just be another regular monthly occurrence! A young life shouldn't be ruined for a mistake but neither should the morning after pill replace a little forethought and planning. It is so easy to obtain contraception today that asking for a bit of responsibility is not so outrageous is it?

jangly Wed 07-Sep-11 20:19:40


JessM Wed 07-Sep-11 20:30:47

They do need access to the m.a.p but i think it should be prescribed by a professional who can then give guidance and advice about protecting themselves in future.
Teenagers are having sex long before they are capable of forethought, planning, saying no, insisting on condom use, assessing risks etc.
Years ago, when i was s secondary teacher, the kids told me a story about a 12 year old in my class who had "tried to use a condom but it fell off" - well I could see why, he was barely pubescent. smile
Kids feel pressured to have sex these days, long before they are responsible and organised. Access to good advice via wonderful school nurses is the way to go, but many schools do not employ such a treasure.

Baggy Wed 07-Sep-11 21:39:39

But the m.a.p. should still be easily available to the young sillies when they get it wrong, which they will, because they're young and silly immature, as is the nature of young things. Besides, plenty of adults get it wrong too so who are we too be pompous? Doubly so if we never got in a fix ourselves. Blastulas, though potentially human beings, are not human beings at that stage and that bunch of cells, if it dies, does not suffer. I'm more concerned about human beings who are already here and suffering, for whatever reason. I am not religious so I'm not concerned about souls, but if I were religious, I would expect any god worth its salt to be able to look after all souls without my help or interference.

jangly Wed 07-Sep-11 22:26:50

Blimey, three posts in an evening on teenagers and the morning after pill.

OPh well, back to why socks go missing. hmm

jangly Wed 07-Sep-11 22:32:21

How can you say for sure that these "blastulas" that you talk of are not human beings? Who made you an authority on it? Greater minds than ours are undecided.

There should at least be a bit of thought going into getting rid of the start of a new life. Something more than a quick trip to the bathroom cabinet which has bee well stocked for the purpose by mummy and daddy with more money than sense. angry

glassortwo Wed 07-Sep-11 22:54:47

The MAP should be available to all but under medical supervision, as mistakes are made by people of all ages and from all walks of life. I feel that making it available in the bathroom cabinet is removing the responsibilty to take contraception seriously.

Joan Wed 07-Sep-11 23:11:35

Quote from Jangly:
How can you say for sure that these "blastulas" that you talk of are not human beings? Who made you an authority on it? Greater minds than ours are undecided.

The easiest way to think about this, is to accept that this bunch of cells is non-sentient, unlike the scared and reluctant woman.

I remember when America made abortion legal (Roe v Wade). Not long afterwards the problems with unwanted children being neglected and worse, started to reduce, especially in poorer areas.

jangly Wed 07-Sep-11 23:13:54

That doesn't make it any easier for me Joan. Sorry.

I just don't know for sure.

jangly Wed 07-Sep-11 23:15:38

But because I don't know I would like to think more thought would be put into removing the "bunch of cells" than the quick popping of a pill.

That's all.

harrigran Wed 07-Sep-11 23:23:45

Should not be freely available, should have to talk to someone and understand the gravity of what they are doing. If you can just pop them in the bathroom cabinet (in case) who is going to use contraception sensibly.

crimson Wed 07-Sep-11 23:35:10

Better to remove a 'bunch of cells' than a several weeks old foetus. Anyway, the coil works on the same principle and no one seems to be having debates about that as a form of contraception. It's difficult sometimes for a young girl to go to the doctors; I remember being embarassed to see my GP when I was in my late teens and had cystitus, because my friends said it was having sex that had caused it and I felt the doctor would be critical of me. Having said that, there still should be more advice and education for young people when it comes to contaception, and human life at all stages should be respected. A difficult balance, I guess.

Baggy Thu 08-Sep-11 06:30:00

My believe that the blastula is not a human being (even though it has the potential to become one), is based purely and simply on scientific evidence. There are no nerve cells at that stage, so it is not a 'being' just a bunch of cells. If someone comes up with verifiable evidence that it is a human being as we understand the word, then I will believe it. Not before. I think that those who do believe that blastulas are human beings believe that they have souls. As I've already explained, I don't believe that. I don't believe I have a soul either. When my body dies, my brain dies, and my 'spirit', or whatever you want to call it, dies too. That is my belief. Other people are of course entitled to believe other things, and do.

Annobel Thu 08-Sep-11 07:04:31

I agree with Baggy but if the m.a.p. was available in the bathroom cabinet, teenagers would be liable to put themselves at risk of s.t.i. Better education in contraception is vital to stop the spread of these infections which can only be prevented by abstention or by using condoms routinely. Youngsters who indulge in casual sex and rely on the m.a.p. can be setting themselves up for a lifetime of trouble and possibly infertility.

susiecb Thu 08-Sep-11 08:11:41

The mystery to me is that as a nation we spend more now than ever on free contraceptive services, on the teenage pregancy advice service, health visiting , school nursing, GPs, social work and health education and an enormous range of support functions and still we have a problem with what to do about unwanted pregnancies.

My good friend has been a senior school teacher for 40 years teaching and she tells me that young people are turned off by the health education that they get and are bent on exploration for themselves - no different to our day then excpet that then you got banged up in a mother and baby home miles from home, your education terminated, blacklisted form a number of jobs, told you were shop soiled goods and no-one would ever marry you, ignored by the midwives during labour and when you hamemorraged after giving birth and bludgeoned into an adoption you didnt want.You then spend years in therapy and on antidepressants.

ooops I'm raving again - this touches a nerve!

absentgrana Thu 08-Sep-11 09:18:27

I wonder if there are some people for whom the morning-after pill could have side effects that might be serious. Obtaining the pill from a pharmacist, school nurse, general practitioner or some other professional source would be more likely to protect a susceptible person. Also, if freely available in the bathroom cabinet, how tempting would it be to take an extra pill, just to be "on the safe side"? A supply of condoms in the bathroom cabinet, accessible to sons and daughters, might be a much better idea.

GeraldineGransnet (GNHQ) Thu 08-Sep-11 09:31:03

Eek, sorry to have caused controversy! My OP about this stems from when I once interviewed a doctor who did late abortions. He absolutely hated it and did it because someone had to, given that there were very important reasons - to do with mental health, usually. He had two teenage daughters and he said he let it be known that there was a MAP in the bathroom cupboard, because he never wanted to see them in the state of the young women he had to treat.

For me, accepting contraception before the event isn't far from accepting it immediately after. It has to be better than surgical abortion.

jangly Thu 08-Sep-11 09:33:07

Baggy - about souls. I'm pretty sure that when we die we go back to the nothingness that we seem to have come from.

But, when I'm. say, in the countryside or on a high mountain, I can't help feeling we are a higher than the animals and a little lower than the angels. So doubt will always be there.

jangly Thu 08-Sep-11 09:35:12

Poor old Geraldine! grin

See, I did tell you off. sigh.... hmm

jangly Thu 08-Sep-11 09:37:15

It is better than a later abortion. But I'm sure you would want to have a chat with your daughter as well. smile

Baggy Thu 08-Sep-11 10:28:33

Well, I don't feel 'higher' than other animals. Different, certainly (but also very similar any many many ways) but not higher because that implies better, and we're not.

I agree with Geraldine's doctor's opinion. A prevented pregnancy is better than a late abortion. Education is the key, as usual.

jangly Thu 08-Sep-11 11:31:54


Notsogrand Thu 08-Sep-11 11:39:40