Gransnet forums

Other subjects


(53 Posts)
helshea Sat 31-Dec-11 13:22:57

Why do some societies think that paying for sex is wrong - and do we not all pay for sex in one way or another? A marriage licence does not make you a nice person and getting paid for your time does not make you a bad person... and why don't people realise that actually some prostitutes want to be just that - they enjoy it! It's not all about manipulation and danger - in fact probably no more so than some marriages. Who gives us the right..........

Carol Sat 31-Dec-11 13:37:47

If we can distinguish between women and girls who are coerced into prostitution and those who choose to work in the sex industry, yes I agree. I used to get support from the English Prostitutes' Collective, who would come along and offer help to female offenders who used prostitution to pay their pimps for drugs - the same pimps who had given them the drugs for 'free' in the first place. I found their support invaluable and it was easy to work out which women were working in the sex industry by choice and which were not.

Prostitutes are vulnerable whether they choose that life or not, and the Collective had a 'dodgy punters' list with descriptions that they would update and circulate as a way of keeping each other safe. They would distribute condoms and health advice leaflets, too. The police were happy to keep their distance if the Collective were on board, otherwise they often made arrests for loitering, reasoning that this was the least worst way of keeping vulnerable girls safe. It never worked - if they were brought into court, their parting shot after being fined was 'I'll just have to work overtime now!'

helshea Sat 31-Dec-11 13:51:59

Question then? is all prostitution the same and to be treated the same by law? or are street prostitutes different to the higher end call girls?

Carol Sat 31-Dec-11 14:00:25

It's not illegal to be a prostitute or to sell sex for money - it's illegal to loiter for prostitution, and to kerb-crawl. Higher-end call girls don't have the legal problem, unless a person is using their property as a brothel, as it's illegal to use your premises for the purposes of prostitution.

There's no difference between a street prostitute and a higher end call girl - just a matter of haggling over the money.

petallus Sat 31-Dec-11 14:05:24

Years ago I had a friend who liked to quote 'marriage is the oldest form of prostitution' and on the face of it, yes maybe. But the two things aren't really the same, especially these days when women can admit to wanting sex as much as men and feel free to say no if they feel like it. (It's odd to think that only a few years ago there was no such thing legally as rape within marriage). I would be willing to bet that only a small percentage of women work as prostitutes because they like it. How many would continue if they won the lottery? And men who visit prostitutes aren't going to be, in my opinion, the nicest ones around. Hey helshea you've introduced threads on masturbation and prostitution all in a couple of days. I wonder what's next smile

Elegran Sat 31-Dec-11 14:07:17

carol There was an old joke which went something like:-

"Will you sleep with me for £5,000?"
"Err, well ... .... OK"
"So would you sleep with me for £5?"
"Certainly not! what kind of a girl do you think I am?"
"We've already established that. Now we are just haggling over the price."

petallus Sat 31-Dec-11 14:33:29

I know that joke. Funny! But it does demonstrate very well the good old double standard because how come the woman in the joke gets branded as 'that kind of girl' by the man who is considering buying her services but somehow still considers himself to be stigma free?

helshea Sat 31-Dec-11 14:36:06

Sorry to let you down Petallus -but its probably going to be about baking or something similar! I tend to say what I'm thinking at the time, and at the moment I am making jam tarts... oh well.. Tarts? maybe?

Carol Sat 31-Dec-11 14:42:07

I take the point about prostitutes not choosing to do that work if they won the lottery. I would have jacked in my very worthy job, too, if I won the lottery. It then comes down to whether we would do these jobs voluntarily? I would cherry-pick the bits of the job I loved and reject the managerial and admin tasks, just keep the working with people bit. Prostitutes might choose what bits of the work they had been enjoying and keep doing that, perhaps?

helshea Sat 31-Dec-11 15:01:03

and why oh why do men say they "slept with a prostitute" come on boys.. I don't think there would be much sleeping involved.

petallus Sat 31-Dec-11 15:12:18

There can't be much that's pleasurable about street walking. Being a courtesan, maybe the luxury if the clients were rich men. Unfortunately have to go off and cook now. Just a fruit salad and syrup sponge, nothing risque like tarts helshea.

helshea Sat 31-Dec-11 15:15:11

Syrup sponge.. MMMMMmmmmm my favourite, reminds me of my mum's she used to get them from M and S years ago and I used to burn my mouth on the syrup Yummy! She did/does bake too, but for some reason the sponge puddings always came from M and S as did the Christmas pudding - now they come from Aldi, and just as yummy.

helshea Sat 31-Dec-11 15:16:21

Best go and get ready for New Year Celebrations - I wish I was looking forward to it, but hey ho! See you all again Next Year x

JessM Tue 19-Jun-12 08:02:08

Maybe a good moment to revive this debate on GN (NYE not a great moment for serious political debate!)
Scottish labour MP wants to make using a prostitute a crime. She has some valid arguments:

The counter argument is usually something like: Men need an outlet for their urges and if they couldn't go to prostitutes there would be more rape.
Is there any evidence at all that there is a link between the availability of prostitutes and the incidence of rape, I wonder.
The other argument is "its always happened - like the poor, it is always going to be with us" hmm

Ella46 Tue 19-Jun-12 08:19:26

What about the decent men ,who use prostitutes instead of being emotionally unfaithful (as well as physically), if the wife is disabled or just never wants sex.
Some men love their wives and don't want an affair, so use prostitutes. hmm

Greatnan Tue 19-Jun-12 09:14:52

I think men who use clearly under-age girls should be prosecuted. Otherwise, the law of supply and demands operates. My daughter used to work in Drug/Alcohol abuse services and she says that many of her clients used prostitution to fund their habit - but of course it can happen the other way round, where a girl forced into the sex 'trade' turns to drugs to soften the reality of her life.
I wonder if it would be possible to set up brothels away from residential streets (say, on industrial estates?) where women could have some protection and medical/social workers could visit?
Incidentally, prostitution is defined as a trade for income tax purposes (burglary is not, as there is no implied contract between the two parties concerned). It is quite hard to check income, however!

JessM Tue 19-Jun-12 09:16:38

But is that really a valid argument Ella ? The one about disabled men is also used? Is sex with a paid woman really a necessary outlet - or does its availability create the market. Nobody "needed" a washing machine for instance, or a cigarette, until they became available.

Ella46 Tue 19-Jun-12 09:20:53

Prostitution has always been available though. Human nature surely?

Greatnan Tue 19-Jun-12 09:28:37

Some women have 'stood by' their cheating high profile, husbands in spite of the huge humiliation - because they enjoy the life style these men provide?
Is that not a type of prostitution?

whenim64 Tue 19-Jun-12 09:36:12

The only significant link between prostitution and the incidence of rape is that prostitutes are in a high risk bracket as potential victims. So are young men who work as rent boys, and women in domestic relationships, from their partner!

Greatnan Tue 19-Jun-12 10:22:12

I hope the police attitude towards assaults on prostitutes has improved and that of some newspapers. I remember my outrage when the headlines read 'Yorkshire Ripper now targets innocent woman'.

nanaej Tue 19-Jun-12 11:15:19

I heard this interview on Woman's Hour 12 June .. Rachel was a very interesting woman. It did make me think about prostitution and how it can be made 'sleazy and unsafe' because of mainstream attitudes and if society took a more pragmatic view would it be a healthier and helpful "industry"?

'Rachel Wotton is an Australian sex worker, whose clients include people with disabilities. She is the subject of a documentary 'Scarlet Road' which is being screened at the Sheffield Documentary Festival this week. Rachel says it's often the parents of the client who initiate contact with her, on behalf of their adult child. Two of her clients are interviewed for the documentary, as well as a set of parents. Rachel campaigns for the rights of people with disabilities and speaks at conferences on the subject all over the world. She joins Jane to discuss the issues.'

granjura Tue 19-Jun-12 15:48:54

I would be the last to condemn - but I just do not understand why a woman would want to sell herself by choice. Do you know any woman who has had a 'normal' life/upbringing who chooses prostitution?

I wonder how many men who say prostitution is a fine profession, would like their daughters to become prostitutes. Or mums? Had one of my daughters chosen that route, instead of working and studying hard to access decent jobs - I just do not know how I would have felt exactly, but it would have broken my heart and soul. Would any mother not feel the same?

There is also strong male/female bias. Why is it deemed fine for a man to use prostitutes- and yet women who do are not?

granjura Tue 19-Jun-12 15:51:00

Ella46, what about disabled women in the same situation? Are women's needs so different from men's?

jeni Tue 19-Jun-12 16:25:50

There were some very nice gigolos on the queen Mary!