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In need of sex education

(64 Posts)
Mumsyface Sun 09-Jun-19 23:56:50

After seeing a news item about a protest relating to LGBT inclusive education in schools, and DH refusing to discuss current social issues I decided to attempt some self education on the topic (there were only two genders when I was at school, and being anything other than heterosexual was illegal; and we were obliged to consider it immoral and sinful too).
So I started with Wikipedia and read about a range of non-binary identities such as a gender, gender-fluid, and genderqueer. Unfortunately I seem to lack sufficient imagination to be able to understand what I was reading.
The question is whether I can safely ignore the issue as it doesn’t seem to relate directly to me, or should I continue my attempts at self education? As a generalisation I like to try to keep up with current affairs but this one is challenging my intellectual capacity.
What do you all think?

BradfordLass72 Mon 10-Jun-19 00:41:28

First of all, whilst it may seem as if there were "only two genders" when we were at school, there wasn't. smile

Since time immemorial there have been many shades of sexuality and asexuality - but they were ignored, scorned or, as you say, judged by the ignorant, to be illegal.

We've learned better in modern times.

I have many wonderful friends in the theatre who are not 'just' male and/or female, so I have learned a great deal about gender diversity over the years.

So naturally, I would encourage you to learn too but what you do about it, or if it has any impact upon your life, is your choice.

Unless you know any gay, lesbian. bi, trans, asexual etc., people, I can't see that it will matter to you, other than that you are more informed and therefore understand the complex situation a little better.

Personally, I think the changes have come about because people have begun to learn more, realise what difficulties are encountered and been supportive of the rights of people outside the very narrow male/female spectrum.

You might start with this:
teara.govt.nz/en/gender-diversity/page-1

absent Mon 10-Jun-19 05:43:31

I don't care who has a sexual relationship with whom, who loves whom, who marries whom, who lives with whom, so long as no one damages and hurts children and no one forces an unwilling adult.

A gay marriage has nothing to do with my marriage – it doesn't make it better or worse; in fact, it doesn't change or affect it in any way. Two women passionately kissing each other at a bus stop might make me feel slightly awkward in exactly the same way as a man and woman kissing each other passionately at a bus stop.

Maybe we would be better keeping our more passionate moments private whatever our sexuality.

BlueBelle Mon 10-Jun-19 06:55:09

Totally agree absent I don’t want to know what others feel, love, do, I think huge mistakes are being made by shouting about what you are want to be or do from the high hills

Just get on with it, it doesn’t need to be announced people are people accepted for how they behave with others not what they feel they should or shouldn’t be called

DoraMarr Mon 10-Jun-19 06:56:46

It may not relate directly to you now, but it might in the future. You may have family members who are not straight, and your understanding may be needed then.

BlueBelle Mon 10-Jun-19 07:21:31

No Doramarr I do not need understanding of complex titles to love and accept someone Anyone in my family can be what they feel they want to be and they will always be accepted by me I do not need to know more than that

kittylester Mon 10-Jun-19 07:37:51

What bluebelle said.

ninathenana Mon 10-Jun-19 08:11:47

I agree with Bluebelle too.

I know DD feels the same when it comes to her sons.
She has several gay male friends, both couples and singles, they seem drawn to her smile

M0nica Mon 10-Jun-19 08:32:51

I am not quite sure what is testing your intellectual capacity, given that you have written a clearly thought out post and done research.

All but a very small number of people are born with bodies that are clearly male or clearly female. However sexuality is a line from totally heterosexuality to totally attraction to own gender and all of us are somewhere on that line. Separately some people are born with a body of one gender and mind of the other.

It has always been thus, though only recently has this been understood as being the result of nature not nurture or personal choice.

Apart from that I had a religious upbringing and was taught that all are equal in the sight of God. This means I am really not interested in people's gender, hair colour, sexuality, race, religion or anything else. What matters is not what they are but who they are and how the behave to others.

EllanVannin Mon 10-Jun-19 08:37:52

I'm with BlueBelle.

dragonfly46 Mon 10-Jun-19 08:39:58

I think it is so sad for people who feel they have been born in the wrong body. At least now it is more acceptable and they can be helped.
I heard of a baby born recently whose parents were told to choose whether it was a girl or a boy. The baby did not have predominant features of either sex.
Sexuality has so many facets and hopefully we are becoming more open.

Mumsyface Mon 10-Jun-19 08:40:41

Thank you Bradfordlass, I’ll go and look at the link you suggested now. And, good point Doramarr, it might become relevant in the future or even be more relevant than I realise.
Either way, it occurs to me that maybe, with so many more possibilities than I was aware of, people will be having relationships with other people rather than with genitals.

Luckygirl Mon 10-Jun-19 08:46:02

I'm with absent - who does what to whom in the privacy of the bedroom (or wherever|) is no business of mine as long as they do no harm to anyone.

But I guess there is something to be said for being up to speed on current thinking so that you can keep up with the GC and what they are being taught, so you can say the right things and not seem ignorant! - mind you I don't understand the maths they are being taught, nor the English!! grin

Mumsyface Mon 10-Jun-19 09:02:12

Oh Monica, the test to my intellectual capacity is that I was always clear on what it means to be male or female as I was socially programmed from an early age to understand and relate to people in a binary manner. No sex education at school, but in the woods behind the park we learnt what little boys bodies looked like and they learnt what little girls looked like. So far so good. Now it is my imagination that is insufficient to know what the unclear would look like. However, I can imagine that it might be awkward, uncomfortable or distressing to not fit in with societal norms. Likewise, we gossiped about what our parents had done in order to produce us, and we needed the factual information. I don’t feel comfortable with trying to think about what other people do in the privacy of their personal relationships so I choose not to.
Having said all that beating people up in public places for the sexual orientation, gender or agender, performance or lack of it is very clearly unacceptable and suggests that I’m not the only one who doesn’t fully understand the issues involved

optimist Mon 10-Jun-19 10:10:07

I totally agree with this BradfordLass72.

Razzy Mon 10-Jun-19 10:14:02

I think you have to consider the social construct as well - I have a young DD and shops constantly bombard with pink stuff, dolls, make up for girls, skimpy clothes and uncomfortable shoes. Boys things are blue, involve war, fighting, monsters, dinosaurs, science and aeroplanes. Many parents still try to pigeonhole their kids. But there have always, for example, been tomboys, who don’t fit the mould. And of course there has always been a huge variation in how people see themselves and who they are attracted to. Society is now allowing this to be more accepted, as it should.

Sugarpufffairy Mon 10-Jun-19 10:21:23

It is the demand with threat or menace that turns me off all the various genders. I dont understand. I know boys and girls are meant to look like. I dont know what a former male now female or former female now male would look like.
My first experience of a gay man was loaded with difficulty. The family did not admit the fact that was very obvious so others were forced to go along with the lies. They were also very obnoxious people in general so that did not help.
I was born to believe that there were males and females and this continued through my formative years. It is now demanded that I change me life learning.
I agree with a PP though that as long as children and adults are not forced into unwished situations what people do in private is not my business. The operative word being PRIVATE.

LJP1 Mon 10-Jun-19 10:24:35

The only thing that is really worth remembering is that all the LGBTQIA community is made up of human beings, with all the talents & foibles of the rest of us.

There are so many interesting (as a biologist) variations though - enjoy your research but don't get upset. All these variations are known in other species too!

4allweknow Mon 10-Jun-19 10:26:43

Live and let live as long as no-one inflicts or suffers harm. I am at time a bit confused having known males who were heterosexual, (one married and had family), who then declared themself to be gay then after a few years were back to being heterosexual. Not encountered the same with women, only heterosexual then gay. Anyone explain why?

Alexa Mon 10-Jun-19 10:29:15

My parents were concerned that I would be physically as self A little of the Pinkie girlie stuff may not be too harmful as long as the girl is also taught to be mentally and physically bold as boys are traditionally taught.

What has to be abhorred is premature sexualisation such as bikinis, bras, or make up for little girls.

Alexa Mon 10-Jun-19 10:29:36

self sufficient

Alexa Mon 10-Jun-19 10:30:39

Sex is determined by DNA. Gender is determined by cultural influences.

Rosina Mon 10-Jun-19 10:41:07

I don't see a need to keep demonstrating sexuality, whatever form it takes, when as far as I am concerned one's sex life is a private matter, or a private matter between two adults. Recently there has been adverse publicity because someone inadvertently addressed an individual in the 'wrong' way , having been unaware of their sexual stance. This is just too much - I am all for 'live and let live' but as usual the pendulum seems to have swung too far and, as with many other current social difficulties, it seems that you have to pick words extremely carefully in order not to offend those who decide to be insulted by practically any comment. People should be free to live as they wish - but I am no more interested in their gender than they would be in mine.

Missiseff Mon 10-Jun-19 10:43:26

I think it's very sad that some feel the need for discussion. People are people. Whoever they love or whatever they have for their tea is no-one else's business. If children are taught that from day one, they'll just accept it. It's adults that need to get their heads out from up their backsides. We're all different, get over it.

Gonegirl Mon 10-Jun-19 10:47:36

I wouldn't try to understand all the different terms for different sexual orientations. It will make your head spin.

Leave the research for when, and if, you need to know about it.

I don't believe it's quite so widespread as people make out. Most people are simply man/woman loves man/woman. They get together and have kids.

That will no doubt be met on here with howls of protest.