how can I help my son, and should I try?

Sorry, but it sounds like exploitation to me. Is there a promise of a job at the end of this apprenticeship? Does he belong to a union?

Thank you all. It's really helped to hear from you all. I've also been away, which has helped give me some perspective.

Living here in a commuter village, going out at 6:30am and getting home at 8pm is not that unusual. Your son obviously enjoys his job and the responsibility, and his employers trust him and respect his opinion, so sorry to be brutal...what@s the problem? He is building his career, if he was working i medicine or the emergency services he would not only be doing long days, he would have shifts and disrupted sleep patterns to deal with as well.

maisie in 5 mths time your DS will be out of his time and be confident that he will be able to deal with anything thrown at him and cope with the responsibility of his job,will he be staying with this employer or will he move on once his apprenticeship has finished as sometimes a Company will then have to pay higher salaries once qualified.
I remember when my DS2 was training the hours he had to put in where really long as he had to do practical training and studying 7 days a week but it was the only option he had if he wanted to pass the exams,and eating the staple diet of takeaways was high on his list when it came to food but he survived and lived to tell the tale as I'm sure your boy will.

Some of that was presumably travel time, iam?

12 hour days seem the norm so far as I can tell from our own adult children, and all their friends. I'm not sure it's new either. My grandparents did 12 hour shifts, but at least worked close to home. In 1967 when working in the city 12 miles from my home, I'd leave home at 7am, and arrive back about 6.30 on a good day.
I don't say it's the best way to live, just that it isn't uncommon.

PS The only thing I would worry about is his stress levels, if they are over loaded then of course something would need to be done about that, perhaps Dad could have a quite word because sons know that Mums worry far too much, I know I do but have gotten much better recently, mainly because it did me no good worrying and permitted me from thinking clearly.

FINALLY after all these years I have learn't

Dear maisiegreen As it is just for another 5 months, I would not worry too much. He is young and fit and able to do it at the moment, and his efforts will hopefully stand him in good stead.

If he were my son, I would be proud of him for trying so hard and be so willing to make the effort.

I have friends that are Doctors and the life style you have mentioned, working 12 hours a day, is the norm for them, and one couple are in their late 30's and have two children to take care of as well as working those silly hours.

Its great , and he is very fortunate, that you are around to cook him a good meal every night, and I am sure that this is making a massive difference.

He will be ok

Yes, well put. My remark about time-'wasting' did not of course apply indiscriminately. But I still think it is not possible to work at one's most effective for that length of time so, in a way, anyone forced to work such long hours and ending up exhausted, will quite likely not be doing their best work. This is not a criticism, just a fact of life as I see it.

maisie, it appears that your son only has to look after himself at the moment. If anyone can manage long working hours it's young adults with no further responsibilities (e.g. kids). I think you can stop worrying.

Well put Jess

These working hours are not unusual (e.g. students, hospital doctors, lone parents with 3 cleaning jobs and many people in business. And they don't all waste time at work.)
Millions of people work hours like this and do long commutes as well and sometimes look after babies and toddlers. And then have to sort out their own catering. I can think of hard working people who have for years eaten food we might not approve of (takeaways and ready prepared meals). Once he has got a place of his own you won't be able to cook tea for him.
He is lucky to have an apprenticeship. If he doesn't like it, he can apply for another job when he has completed the qualification. You are very lucky to have a hard working son. I really wish my middle aged DS did not have to work to the point of exhaustion but there is nothing at all I can do about that. I just have to accept it and try my best not to worry about it.
Maisiegreen this is about you wanting to look after your boy. It is sometimes hard being the parent of an adult. When they are little we can protect them and look after them. It is hard to let go of that role. Although we always will want to protect them and nurture them, we have to face the fact that it is not healthy if we do so. We need to step back and let them make their own choices. Go away and have a nice break and start enjoying the next phase of your life.

I worry about the hours both my 'children' put in and the stresses it puts on their family life and health. Both are in high intensity jobs. Recently one of my son's colleagues, also in his early 40s had a stroke, partly at least attributable to pressure at work.

The "people waste time during working hours" rings true. It's not possible to work at full blast, or even half blast, for twelve hours solid. There will be slack periods when the pressure is off and, in a job where you like your workmates as well as the work, those times can be very enjoyable.

If your son seems happy, maisie, I don't think you have anything to worry about. He sounds like a good lad. I wish him every success.

Reading these comments, I can't help but think (a) whatever happened to work-life balance, and (b) how can those hours be considered 'normal'!

I don't have the answers, my young friend works in a company where the culture is to work late every night, and when she leaves work on time, she has to endure comments about clock watching. She on the other hand feels that, because of the culture of staying late in the office, people waste time during their normal working hours and often only settle down to work towards the end of the day.

're the OP agree with the comments that 'molly coddling' won't help but I understand how you feel Maisie, I'd be the same.

My 23 yr old still lives at home. He leaves home about mid day and gets home any time between 1am and 3am. He often gets up and goes off without eating. Preferring to stay in bed till the last minute. His choice, he's a grown man. I don't like it but its his business.

He is working hard and hopefully it will lead to a better future. It's great that you are caring but it might be a bit stressful for him having you living with him. It might be nice for him to come home at the end of a long, hard day and just relax by himself. You can put a couple of decent meals in the freezer for him or offer to go to the supermarket to make sure he has food in and then go away as planned for a while. Young people need their space and if you are lucky enough to have a little break then go for it. He will be fine and a little time apart may well be beneficial to you all.

Mine too ginny I try telling him that he is working too hard and remind him (gently) that he is no longer 40 but he just says if he doesn't do it, it won't get done and there are peoples jobs as stake. What can you do?

I hope your son appreciates your caring.

As others have said he probably manages quite well when on his own and good on him for working hard. Many people work long hours these days ( probably always have). My DD has to be out of the house by 7.15 am with DGS ready for the school bus , works a full day (8 - 5.30 ) picks him up and once he is in bed often does more work.

At 62 years old my DH is still out by 8a.m and home around 7 pm.

If you are worried about going away, is there room in his freezer to put a few home prepared meals for him? You could then enjoy the break knowing he has the option of eating well, although he may choose rubbish of course! He is a grown man after all!

When I look at our children's generation they all work fienfish hours and as others have said 12 hour days are not uncommon. My SIL is often out before 6.30 and may not be home till 11 while DD has to gone by 7.30 to get the boys to nursery then a full day's teaching picking the boys up by 5, teatime, bathtime bedtime and then a couple of hours planning and marking and she is 20 weeks pregnant. I'm not saying this is ideal but they are young - you are understandably protective but he will cope and if he is doing a good job this will stand him in good stead for the future.

Apprenticeships are precious and it sounds as if he is doing really well as they are trusting him with more managerial roles - well done that young man! Tell him you are proud of him, supply a few home comforts while you are staying there, then move on, knowing he is working on making something of his life.

You have obviously done a good job in bringing him up so that he is a man able to stick to a job, even though it is challenging at present. This will all stand him in good stead for the future.

He is doing something worthwhile and will end up with good qualifications, so I am sure he will be fine.

I think we tend to forget that their energy levels are probably higher than ours and the 12 hour days sound fairly normal to me for someone who is working and training at the same time.

It is good that he has you to cook nourishing meals for him at the moment - but don't worry about him - he'll be fine. It is no good fussing too much because he will probably meet a lovely partner one day who will not fuss about him - they will expect an equal relationship and he has to be prepared for that.

thanks for all your responses. I know they contain the truth, but he came home at 8.30. And has gone to bed (at 9.45). in between they called him to check if a job was going out on time tomorrow. I know I shouldn't molly coddle him, but this seems awful.

Although this is certainly a long working day, he has an apprenticeship, which is worth a lot. He will feel proud of himself at the end of it, and if you paint him as a victim [to your son I mean] that will diminish him, when he is pleased [I should imagine] to have this role.He is a man of 25 and it is so good for him to have a hard slog, but a proud achievement.
If you need to go away for a while then do so, he will not mind having a pizza or ready meal [in fact he probably lives off them anyway.]Yes, make a nice meal when you are there, and put the washing on etc but don't fall into the trap of coddling him. We can all be a bit like this with our sons, I have to pull back myself sometimes, but it isn't good to mollycoddle them.

right on the money ANA.
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Listen to her Maisie