We can't fly for them, HildaW and if we have always carried them around, their wings won't be strong enough to hold them up when they need them.
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Have no idea what more we can do
(88 Posts)I am new and didn't know where to turn.
I have three sons, the oldest son is married and he lives quiet far away. We usually see him a few times a year, sometimes his wife will come and see us as well. This particular daughter in law is shy but overall I believe we get on ok.
My second son lives about an hour away. We have always been quite close and he is always calling and coming to visit. We don't often have to arrange to see him as he often makes the plans himself. He is not married but he has been with his current girlfriend over a year now. She is lovely and I get on very well with her. She will also often contact us herself and seems to genuinely enjoy spending time with us. She has very good family values.
My youngest son lives the closest to us, he is married and his wife recently had a baby. My first and only grandchild. I have always been pretty close to my youngest child. I don't hear from him as often as I do my second and we often have to make the initiative to invite him over but overall it's rare we would go more than a month without some kind of contact with him.
The problem is my youngest sons wife. On the surface I would say we get on well. She is a very nice and polite girl. She is shy (not as shy as my other daughter in law) and often keeps herself to herself. I have tried to get to know her, to find some common ground but it is hard. My oldest sons wife is very into fashion and beauty so we can bond over that. My second sons girlfriend is very easy to talk to, and she is quiet happy to sit there with us over a bottle of wine and some food for hours. My youngest sons wife however I struggle.
She is very resistant to talk about herself. I have had mixed results talking about her family or her work. She is polite and will listen if I talk about myself. We don't really share any common interests. In fact whenever I do try to talk to her it always feels like she is waiting for a polite moment to leave the conversation.
She is not as bad with other members of our family but overall you can tell that she doesn't enjoy getting together with us and after an hour or so she is ready to leave. My son says that she finds social situations difficult and doesn't enjoy them. I find this odd, how can you not like spending time with people? My son says her family rarely have huge get togethers. He says she finds the number of get togethers we have overwhelming.
I know however her problems with me run deeper than just being shy and socially awkward. I first noticed a change in her when they were planning their wedding. I tried to help them out as much as I could, from my perspective it looked like they were struggling. Her parents didn't seem to be helping at all, so I took it upon myself to help them out. Eventually it got harder to get an answer from her, when I questioned my son he said she felt that I was taking over. He said that she feels like this is my wedding and that she isn't even sure if she wants to show up. I was shocked and upset. I was only trying to help and if she didn't like something then why didn't she just say?
On the day of the wedding my son was very nervous that she wouldn't turn up. She was still angry at my involvement and by this point, apparently, so was her family. In the end she did turn up and it was a wonderful day. She seemed to enjoy herself, and although she seemed to be actively avoiding me I assumed that she would now appreciate my help. I was wrong because after the wedding I started seeing less of her. I asked my son about this and apparently she was still angry about the wedding and she blames me for ruining her day. She feels like she got the wedding I always dreamed of. They got married in 2010 and as far as I am aware she is still pissed off about the wedding.
A few years ago my son and daughter in law were having a few financial problems and they had to move out of their home. They had nowhere else to go so they decided to move in with us. I saw this as my chance to finally get to know her. I wanted her to feel comfortable and welcomed into our home. I told them that all we expected was rent. We would take care of all the household shopping, cooking, cleaning, and laundry. As long as they tidied up after themselves and paid their rent on time they didn't have to worry about anything else. This didn't go down well with her, apparently, she insisted that she at least did their laundry.
It seemed silly to me, if I was already regularly doing my own laundry that she would then do her own but to keep the peace I agreed. The laundry soon became a bit of a battle, as I predicted we often wanted the washing machine at the same time. She would often throw my clothes on the side and then put her own washing in. I also like to hang my clothes outside. We don't have much room to hang washing inside, plus I feel they dry better outside. My daughter in law seemed to take offence to this and insisted on only drying her washing inside no matter what the weather.
A few times I would move her washing outside and she would then angrily move it back inside. After a while she stopped taking her washing upstairs if it was dry, she would leave it laying around for a couple of days. If I attempted to take it upstairs for them this was met with the same anger as when I moved their washing outside. In the end I gave up and just let her do what she wanted. I was fed up trying to fight her.
She also slowly became withdrawn from us. When they first moved in my daughter in law made an effort to spend time with us but very quickly she became withdrawn. Towards the end I never knew if she was in. It was almost like she would sneak in and out of the house. If she was in then she would go straight to the bedroom and close the door. I have no idea what she did in there because you would never hear a sound unless my son was home.
She also rarely ate anything. Before she lived with us, she didn't have a huge appetite but she would at least finish a meal. Slowly over time she would eat less and less around us. If I made a comment then she would claim that she wasn't hungry. I started giving her less and less food but still she refused to finish a meal. She started to loose weight which worried me because she was very thin to begin with. I started buying food which I know she likes but she didn't touch it. I raised my concerns to my son, he told me that it made her uncomfortable when we spoke about her appetite and eating habits, he said we should just leave her alone.
They lived with us for just over a year and then suddenly my son announced that they were moving out and they were going to live with my daughter in laws parents. This wasn't a huge shock to me, by this point we were barely speaking. I was however extremely upset, I felt like I failed. All I wanted was for her to like us and for her to feel like she was part of the family. After they moved out I asked my son why they left. I knew the answer before he told me but I wanted confirmation. He said that my daughter in law thought we were interfering and that her every move was being watched. She felt that she never had any privacy and that we were constantly judging her. They are still living with get parents and they seem to be getting on well, they do their own shopping, cooking, cleaning, and laundry. They also seem to have exclusive use of two rooms. We still don't see her often and if she does come over they never stay for long.
She must have fell pregnant roughly four months after they moved in with her parents. When they told us she was pregnant I was over the moon, I never thought I would ever have grandchildren. Out of my three sons my youngest was always the most likely to have children but my daughter in law always stated that she didn't want them. I am not sure what changed, they haven't really stated whether the baby was planned or not, but I was ecstatic.
My daughter in law struggled during the first trimester and also at the very end but overall she had a very straightforward pregnancy. She ended up giving birth 8 days before her due date to my beautiful grandson. I thought that her pregnancy and having a baby may finally give us something in common. I hoped that finally she would feel comfortable being with us and we could put the past behind us.
I saw even less of my daughter in law whilst she was pregnant. I went to a lot of trouble of buying food and drink which suited her current food tolerances and cravings but a lot of it got chucked away. I tried to talk to her about how she is feeling, what things she had/ what she still needed, her maternity leave plans, childcare plans, and how people around her are treating her. She was polite, answered all my questions but basically nothing changed. She still doesn't want to spend longer than is polite speaking to me. I asked my son and daughter in law if there was anything we could do or buy to help them out, and the answers was no. They had everything under control, they didn't need help from anyone. I was extra careful after the wedding not to interfere or give any advice but she still didn't seem happy!
My grandson is here now and my son had 4 weeks off work when he was first born. During this time my son sent us lots of pictures and we saw my grandson 5 times, the last time my son bought the baby on his own. He stated that his wife needed some time to herself. My son is back at work now and I have no idea really when we will next see the baby. We have a few family things planned in the summer which my son says they are coming to but in the mean time it's gone very quiet. My son hasn't sent any pictures and I doubt my daughter in law will bring the baby round herself.
Before the baby my son visited us at least every couple of months, either with or without his wife. I did hope that now the baby is here that we would see them more often but I don't think that will be the case. I don't think my daughter in law is purposely stopping me from seeing my son or grandson but I don't think she is planning on making any effort to see me herself. This is upsetting for not only myself but also my husband. We just don't know what more we can do.
Oh Elegran, I salute your diplomacy!
I think us Mums know when we have succeeded when we have a conversation with a grown-up child and they relate some horrid predicament they have had AND solved and then they say.....'I didn't tell you earlier, I didn't want to worry you'.....part of you thinks...'Oh I failed you.....but the main feeling is pride and joy that they have learned to cope!
Being a Mum is teaching them to fly...and then watching them soar.
Ana I am with you in giving the benefit of the doubt, but my first thoughts on reading the original post were that it was full of all the things that are obviously going to attract exactly the comments that have appeared.
I do hope that NellyBu doesn't confirm that it is a wind-up by following it with a post saying that everyone is being nasty to her.
I understand why you might be surprised by the responses, as you clearly do not "get it"! This must be very hard for you because it hits at the heart of how you see yourself and how you think life should be led. But I really do think the advice is sound and you should not reject it - it might be the making of family relationships to come.
There is so much in your second post that jumps off the page at me -
"I just don't understand the reluctance people have nowadays to accept help. I have noticed this in both my daughter in laws. They both strive to be independent and do things themselves. " Does this surprise you?
"I admit I probably did interfere too much in the wedding, but they didn't appear to be making any plans. They only arranged the registry office. They didn't think about a reception, decorations, clothes, music, cake, invitations, seating plans, etc." - heavens above! It was their wedding to organise as they saw fit, and if that meant popping into a registry office and doing it quietly and quickly then that was their choice, not yours.
"I just worry that they are taking on too much." - we all take on too much when we have our first child and have no idea what to expect - but we have the right to choose when and from whom we seek help.
Perhaps you could channel your organisational skills to some purposeful goal; a voluntary organisation maybe. You may already do so, but it is a thought. Your family will then see that you are channeling your energies elsewhere and feel safer about turning to you, knowing that you will not try to take over.
Your opinions are your opinions and not theirs - leave them free to make their own decisions and run their own lives. It is you who will reap the rewards.
You were independent from an early age, NellyBu You forged your own life. Now let your son and daughter-in-law be independent too, and forge theirs.
Talking of forges - in a forge, metal is subjected to a lot of heat and hard knocks - and it come out stronger for it. You went through the fire when your mother was ill and became stronger. Your aunt was there to help you when you needed it BUT I am willing to bet that she allowed you to take responsibiity for yourself too.
I imagine she helped you when you wanted help, and let you do things for yourself when you did not. That is how you became strong enough to feel that you can and must help everyone, whether they feel that they need help or not.
You do want your son and his wife to grow in strength and judgment, don't you? As you wanted him to be able to tie his shoelaces when he was younger, and remember to hand in his homework on time? So let them take the weight of their decisions and their consequences themselves. Let them know that if they need you you will be there for them, but that they are the (joint) captains of their own ship, and that they are the ones who will ask when they need a tow. If you go aboard with a tow-rope unasked, you are a pirate.is clear)
(Some mixed metaphors there, but I think my meaning
In fact I'm not entirely convinced that this isn't a complete wind-up, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
I don't understand why you think it's somehow wrong that your DIL's family is 'leaving them to get on with it' NellyBu.
If they're still living with DIL's parents, how can they be taking on too much? Why would they come to you - do you mean for financial help?
I don't understand your mindset at all, I'm afraid, and that's all I have to say on the subject.
I hope things work out.
They strive to be independent and do things themselves
NellyBu of course they blinking do!
That IMO, is what as parents we want our children to be!
My DD, DS and DIL are all independent adults but know where I am if they want a sounding board, suggestions or advice.
With DS, DDIL and DGS from the start I stood back and waited to be invited up to see them, yes I did give them bits and pieces and money for the buggy but never, ever overstepped the mark. As a result we FaceTime (led by them) very regularly, we've been away with them twice and I babysat when DGS recently had chickenpox and his parents had to go to work.
You are NOT them, do not worry about them taking on too much with a new baby! That's their decision to have a baby, and to work out their new family life, not yours.
I think you have every right to worry that they won't come to you, it'll be because they don't want you taking over if they do.
Her family clearly have the right idea, as you say.
Sorry if this is harsh, I just can't understand why you persist in thinking everyone needs help .
There's nothing wrong with offering help, Nelly.
Just as long as you don't force the issue.
I wanted to help when my DD had DGD1, but was firmly told that we could visit for one hour, and then they didn't want any visitors for a fortnight.
We respected that, as did SiL's parents, but when his paternity leave was over my DD asked me to stay for a week, which I gladly did. (They live 300 miles away from us).
If you give help, it must be on your son and DiL's terms, not yours. Whatever you do, don't drive a wedge between your son and his wife.
I think most of us on here have brought up our DDs to be independent and stand on their own feet - maybe your DiL's mother did too.
Oh dear if you are seriously surprised by people's comments then I worry for you.
You cannot force your views on how things should be and how people should lead their lives. If someone really wants help they will ask....but first and foremost a parents duty is to nurture and love their children until they can stand on their own two feet in this huge vast wonderful world. You cannot lead their lives for them AND more importantly you cannot live your life through them they are their own people.
If you do not back off you will loose so much and Gransnet is full of loving Grandparents who have lost what they treasure most, often through no fault of their own. You run the risk of destroying it all on your own.
I am sorry if this sounds harsh but you need to stand back, love them by accepting them for who they are and just letting go. When you have done that, they will come back to you.
I echo what everyone else has said. NellieBu you are obviously a very sociable person who likes to take an interest in others but we are all different. I am a very private person. I have a friend who I quite like but she questions everything I do. "What did you do at the weekend, did you see your sons, how are they all doing, is your DIL still working, when is your next hospital appointment etc etc". I drives me mad! I know it is just her way but if I wanted her to know these things I would tell he. A few questions now and again is fine but I hate being asked these private questions even though I know she means well.
Try chatting to you DIL about general things without probing into personal questions. I know you mean no harm but some people just don't like it. Hope you manage to find a way through this and get to enjoy your DGC.
I must admit I am surprised by the responses I have received.
I have spent my life looking after everyone. My mother fell ill when I was quite young so I had to look after her, my father, and my brothers. I only really had my aunt to look after me and she has always been involved in my life and has been a huge influence to me. I relied on her and my husbands family a lot when raising my boys. We didn't have a lot of money and couldn't have coped without support from family.
I just don't understand the reluctance people have nowadays to accept help. I have noticed this in both my daughter in laws. They both strive to be independent and do things themselves. The only exception to this is my second sons girlfriend, she comes from a family like my own and she seems happy to accept our assistance.
I admit I probably did interfere too much in the wedding, but they didn't appear to be making any plans. They only arranged the registry office. They didn't think about a reception, decorations, clothes, music, cake, invitations, seating plans, etc. My son seemed to welcome my assistance, it was just his wife. We also helped with my oldest sons wedding and they both also appeared grateful.
I have tried to back off when it came to my daughter in laws pregnancy and now the birth of their son. It hasn't changed anything, she is still distant. I just want to be there for her and help out. It sounds like her family are just leaving them to get on with it. I just worry that they are taking on too much. A new baby can be very demanding and I remember feeling extremely overwhelmed and was happy for any help offered.
I guess I should follow her family's example and leave them to it. I just worry that they won't feel they can come to us.
This so reminds me of when I was first married and mil asked if she could bring a couple of her friends to our house to meet me. After the cup of tea and small talk she then said 'I'll just show Grace and Tom round the house and proceeded to do just that including our bedroom. I was furious and after the visit when DH told her that she shouldn't have done that as it was our house she replied that 'it didn't look as if I was going to do it so she had to'! She's 93 now and over the years has never tired of 'helping' including tidying my kitchen drawers. I do remember that one way I felt I could control her was to eat very little in her house so I sympathise with Nellybu's dil. I hope the comments on this thread help.
I've read and re read this post and responses basically with a sense of incredulity and increasingly a level of disbelief that OP doesn't realise just what she needs to do......
In the end I gave up and just let her do what she wanted. I was fed up trying to fight her.
How telling is that comment? 
I have to echo everyone else, just listen to yourself NellyBu and try reading back all that you have written. I am surprised that she turned up for her wedding, she must have wondered whether her DH was going to be a chip off the old block.
NellyBu - reading this lot must have been hard for you - but there are no dissenting voices - everyone has the same view essentially. So please do try and hear what is being said for your own sake. You have a lot of ground to make up and the frustrating thing for you is that you can only do this by doing nothing. Stand back, take a deep breath and give these young people some space.
Some of your actions defy belief from my point of view - how could you possibly move her washing outside when she had expressly said she likes to dry it indoors?! And then be surprised that she was angry!
There are a lot of fences to mend here, and your approach has been a bit awry so far - but it may be a retrievable if you stand back and get on with your life and leave them to get on with theirs.
"She ended up giving birth 8 days before her due date to my beautiful grandson." - the last 3 words if this sentence speak volumes. He is indeed your GS, but first and foremost he is THEIR child.
I want to send you some s actually, as this could be a hard thread to read for you.
I actually think that she is probably a nice woman. She is who she is. You have to work around her. Not the other way round, which is what she has been doing.
I think you have damaged your relationship with her. Which is a big shame.
For what it is worth, I think you can get it back again.
But it involves work on your part.
I hope that you can see things differently from this thread?
I think that you have been bending over backwards. But you were not bending in the right way.
Nelly Welcome to Gransnet - I hope you don't feel as though you've had too much of a Baptism of Fire.
You ask: "how can you not like spending time with people?"
Quite easily.
I like spending time with people some of the time, if they are people I have chosen to be with, but if I don't have peace and quiet, and time to myself to do my own thing and think my own thoughts, I feel suffocated.
Perhaps your DiL feels the same way.
The part that screamed out at me in the OP was the girls eating habits. It seemed to be the only thing she had control of.
You ask "what more can we do" You phone or send a letter and tell her that you are so so sorry, you got it all wrong, and can you start again.
NellyBu Ditto - what everyone has said.
As I read your post I could just feel where it was going ... downhill.
The replies might feel hurtful to you and a bit hard to take. Please know that I feel for you - but my mantra is always, mouth shut, zip shut, wait till asked. I think your dil has been overwhelmed and drawing back is the only way she knows how to handle it.
Honestly, I think you are lucky that you and she are still on talking terms.
My advice - take it easy, slowly, only give advice when asked.
I have 4 boys, 3 are married and one in a long term relationship. DH and I had nothing to do with the arrangements of any of the 3 weddings, we offered and paid for certain expenses i.e. cars, flowers, cake. How much is it, here's the cheque.
We also have one dil who is more reserved. Sometimes wonder have we offended.
We have one dil who is extrovert and yet quite private - don't ask too much, let her make the running, so to speak.
We have 2 dils who are in the middle somewhere.
When ds and dil from far away have visited for perhaps 2 or 3 weeks (about every 3 or 4 years) they still do their own laundry, sometimes join us at mealtimes, or sometimes are out and come home and fend for themselves. I say this is your home, you know where everything is, do what you want and just ask if you need anything. I'd never ever change how dil wanted her washing done or dried, wouldn't dare.... And wouldn't dare comment (even to ds) about eating habits etc.
However, if any of our sons asked for advice, it is given. Often I've said... do you just want to chat and offload, or do you really really want my opinion/advice.
I do hope that you and ds and dil can overcome this situation and enjoy your dgc.
Hello and welcome to Gransnet NellyBu.
You obviously want to do the right thing and I have no doubt that your heart is in the right place, but the whole time I was reading your account of things I was wincing and wanting to say, 'back off'.
There is a fine line between 'helping' and 'taking over' and I'm afraid that you've most definitely crossed that line. If your daughter in law is shy and rather gauche in social situations I well understand her reluctance to tackle you head on, but I actually think that she's been quite restrained. I have lived with my mother in law and also my son and daughter in law have lived with me so I have experienced it from both sides and I can tell you that it worked in both cases because there was no interference.
I think that Elegran's posts are spot on and you would do well to heed her advice.
Good grief! I really feel for your poor DiL. I'm sorry, but it has to be said. You've had a lifetime of experience running a home and organising everyone's lives, and this shy young girl didn't really stand a chance against the onslaught of your life management skills.
She feels like she got the wedding I always dreamed of. They got married in 2010 and as far as I am aware she is still pissed off about the wedding. I am really not surprised! But I am surprised that you are 
She also slowly became withdrawn from us. When they first moved in my daughter in law made an effort to spend time with us but very quickly she became withdrawn. Did you seriously not hear the alarm bells ringing? After the debacle of taking over her big day, you proceed to take over her life and wonder why she becomes withdrawn, escaping to her bedroom? I have no idea what she did in there.. Well, I would say that was the general idea on her part. It was the only way she could be in your house without you monitoring her every move.
Then when she became pregnant, you tried to talk to her about how she is feeling, what things she had/ what she still needed, her maternity leave plans, childcare plans, and how people around her are treating her. You may have meant this as helpful, but believe me your DiL saw this as you once again wanting to know every detail of her life, as though she's incapable of organising all of these things herself without your help.
Cast your mind back to when you were at her stage in life. Did you have an older woman - either your mother or your mother-in-law - who was always there, micro-managing your life for you? If not, try to imagine how that would have felt.
You are so lucky to have a grandson, and you see him fairly often, certainly more than many on GN. Be grateful for that. Stand back and leave your DiL to run her own life. You may yet, with care, rescue this situation.
That poor girl! It seems she did her utmost to fit in and be friendly, but was eventually ground down by the continual unwanted interference and attempts to control her.
Have you read your post back to yourself, NellyBu? I find it hard to comprehend how an obviously intelligent and capable woman such as yourself can't see that your own actions have caused this stalemate.
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