Have no idea what more we can do

The lady my son is now married to is very different to his first wife, and we have come to know each other very well, while at the same time not "getting in each other's hair". They live an hours drive away and we see more of DS than we do of my DiL, but only in the football season! Sometimes she will come down with him but if she doesn't, she knows we won't take it amiss. She also comes from a close family. We don't usually go to them unless we are invited, but on a few occasions when we have been nearby and have asked if we could pop in and see them, she has always been most welcoming. Like Harrigran my children have always been independent. My son boarded from the age of 11 and travelled back and forth by train and plane during the holidays to get to wherever home was. It would never have occurred to me that he couldn't manage these things - we just let him get on with it. We did, of course, help him through his bereavement which wasn't easy for any of us, but when his life was getting back on track, we were happy to take a back seat.

Bella - Thank you. I hope it didn't sound like whingeing! I was just trying to point out that people perhaps react in different ways due to the circumstances of their life. Well, we are still together 46 years on

KatyK that beginning sounds so sad. Hope things have improved a lot since then.

thatbags, your post could have been written by me. I brought my children up to be independent at an early age, they had to travel to the next city from 11 years of age to attend school. At 13 DD travelled from her aunt's home in Germany back to UK and several times stayed in London on her own to take exams at the Royal college of music. Both DD and DS left home to go to university and never returned to the family home, when they graduated they went straight into jobs and got on with their own lives.
I don't ring them on a regular basis and don't expect them to include me in their social lives, all I have said to them is that I am only a phone call away if they have a problem and I will help if I am able.

Eldest DD's 22-year marriage broke up last year. She dealt with all the ongoing issues herself, with an occasional natter on the phone to me. I think she used these calls merely as a sounding board, though. I didn't worry about her as such, because I know she's level-headed and she'd recognised that the marriage was failing beyond repair.
DS however, had personal issues a few years ago. He overcame them with my help, both emotionally and financially. Because of this I'd found it hard to look on him as being totally independent, because he was dependent on me. Now, though, I've seen the importance of stepping back. To not step back would be giving him the message that I feel he can't cope, and that would be counterproductive.

Indeed it is special and I enjoy my grown-up DDs and seeing what they are making of their lives.

The desire to help and support them that goes with parenthood has not left me, but it is on their terms and when they ask for it. And in return there are times when they help and support me.

Motherhood is so all-consuming for so long that it is tempting to feel that when this stops you have no purpose or role. We have to adapt and build new lives based on a very different relationship with our children (and their partners). If we feel that a gap has appeared in our lives (which of course it has) it is up to us to fill it, not our children.

Developing new roles and interests is healthy both for us and for our children, who are freed of any concern that they might be responsible for our happiness.

I have always felt that my job as a parent was to assist my children, inch by inch, in their quest (i.e.growing up) towards full independence. Full independence means I'm redundant when it comes to parenting and the adult-child relationship. A number of people have said that they find this hard to accept. I haven't found that because it's what I expected, no, wanted, all along. The proverbial apron strings don't get cut, they just fray over the years and gradually part. The adult to adult family relationship that remains is completely different from the parent-child one but just as special.

Your last paragraph is spot on Marelli. Hard to accept but that's how it is.

So many sensitive and sensible posts here. Hilda and Greyduster, I've taken note of your posts in particular.
It's taking me a long, long time to turn off the 'inner mum' (what a brilliant description of that emotion). DS's relationship with his fiancée has completely broken down. He's lived with her for two years, and has been so upset by the break-up. I've found that it's also affected me deeply, not only because I was/am fond of her but also because I fear for him and how he will live his life now that they're not together. She's had mental health issues for a very long time, and I think he thought he could change things for her, really. However, this wasn't to be .
What I have recognised though, is that he really does not want to be bothered by my asking (even in a bright voice - he can see through that no problem!) if he's ok.
There really does come a time when they don't really need us (or even want us - and I don't mean that in a sad, pathetic way)! They just want to get on with things, sort out things for themselves and if, now and again, they do remember that we're still in this land of the living, then they MAY just remember to get in touch!

I felt sorry for my DH not my DG

How sad Greyduster. When I met my DH in the 1960s, I was painfully shy. My dreadful upbringing had left me with no confidence. When DH introduced me to his parents (I was 18) I had had very little experience of meeting people outside my own family and had never been taught any 'social skills'. Although my father-in-law was kind, my mother-in-law saw my shyness as 'not trying and rude'. My DH had been going out with a girl prior to meeting me who was by all accounts 'bubbly and outgoing' which I have never been. My mil thought the world of this girl apparently. DH and myself had a small wedding in a Register Office and his mother persuaded his close relatives not to attend. His sister and her husband took no notice and attended. My father-in-law wanted to attend but didn't want to upset his wife. We were given no gifts by any members of his family as mil had told them how dreadful I was. I felt sorry for my DG. There was a bit of a truce for a while but unfortunately she died in her early 50s when we had only been married a couple of years. We are all different and I don't believe most people do things just to be difficult.

I was so very moved by your post, Greyduster. I can so understand how you felt at the funeral, but you could not have done more to be the MiL your DiL wanted. She kept an emotional distance between you and you respected that. You should have no regrets.

Greyduster, such a kindly brave post - once again Gransnet brings out the best in people.

I condone the advice to back off and leave them to it, hard as that may be. I had a similar situation with my DiL. We were warned by my son that she "doesn't do families" so our warm, close knit family unit was totally outside her comfort zone. I respected that but found it disheartening that she shunned all our attempts to spend time with them so that we could get to know her better. When they decided to get married, they wanted only a 'skeleton crew' and I could empathise with that because we did the same when we got married. I don't like fuss either! We let them get on with the arrangements and the only input they requested was would we sort out some flowers. I did, however, insist that we throw a party for them in the evening so that our extended family and a few friends could meet her. It also gave us an opportunity to get to know the few members of her own family (whom she herself rarely saw but who my son had wanted to invite) who attended. Son and new DiL left after about an hour, at her insistence and though I was disappointed there was nothing I could do about it. I supposed I should have expected it but I thought at the time that it was I'll mannered. We never got to see them very often, although when we did, if not welcoming she was very polite, and I never really got to know her well. We accepted the situation because she loved our son to distraction and she was very good for him. However, sadly she became very ill and died. I listened to the eulogies at her funeral and I thought "this was my daughter in law and all these people knew her better than I ever got the chance to." It left an emptiness in me that I still feel when I think about her, which I do, often, even though my son has since married again. What I would say, is let your DiL know how much you would like it if you could be friends and then with draw from the situation. She is young and with a little more maturity she will hopefully open up to you a bit. I feel that if we had had more time this would have happened with us but it was not to be.

Hello NellyBu. Just a quick word of welcome to GN. These are wise people with lots of life experience, and many of them have had years of learning how to be M/FILs so the advice you are getting is worth considering. It is so hard to back off and let the younger generation get on with it, isn't it? I'm still working at what HildaW calls "turning off the inner mum*. Occasionally I let it slip and am usually told by my adult offspring to back off in no uncertain terms! In the long run, it really is the best policy even though it may feel against what you believe is best.

I hope this hasn't put you off GN. It really is a useful forum. A wee ((hug)) to send you on your way forward.

I hope that Nelly Bu does not feel humiliated, and that she is able to pick the bits of advice that she feels are right for her, and hopefully that there will be a thawing of relationships in the future.

Maybe it might be better to have no further conversations with your son on the subject - he seems to have been pretty clear in his advice to you. It would be lovely for you both to enjoy a conversation on a neutral topic without any underlying tension - I am sure you will get there.

I loved your long post Hilda!Agree totally with it.

Nelly, there is enough advice on here without me adding to it, I think you now know what to do.

I have done the 'write a letter and throw it away' thing. It is therapeutic to get it all down on paper, and I feel as if I've clarified everything in my mind. There is no need then to actually give the letter to the person concerned, which would probably do more harm than good anyway. The writing of the letter is for me, not them. I always feel I can move on afterwards and not keep dwelling on the situation and my reaction to it.

excellent idea boggles.

My other technique is to go for a long walk....have the 'conversation' in my head and then return home refreshed and with the feeling that the air has been cleared.

NellyBu

Can I suggest that you write her a letter, read then re-read it, then throw it away.

I think the switch on my "inner mum" must be broken.....

Wise, wise words Hilda.
I shall remember the phrase 'turning off your inner mum'.
Thank you

NellyBu,

Mulling over you OP and having to think about the bigger picture has reminded me of the feelings I went through as it slowly dawned on me that my children were learning to stand on their own two feet. Elder daughter was telling (shouting actually) me at 16 that I was 'trying to rule her life' so I began to edit my thoughts and pick my battles. Younger one seemed to need me for a longer time (or so I thought) but she now astonishes me with very mature emotional insight that has actually helped me with my problems whilst at the same time she is flummoxed by changing a light bulb.

I think what I'm trying to say is that no one really tells you how dramatic and drawn out the whole process of 'emptying the nest' is.
Reconciling oneself with the fact that at some point, your children just do not need, all that detailed input one has been used to dishing out.
The cool logical part of ones mind rejoices in the fact that they are standing on their own two feet, making decisions and choices and just living their own lives. However a very needy inner voice is deeply bereaved by the, almost, death of those child/parent relationships one had.

What we have to do is learn to fill the emotional void when they both physically AND emotionally leave home. WE want them to be strong and self reliant but we just do not know how to turn off our inner Mum.

I've had to stop listening to the voices in my head - the 'have not had a phone call for 5 days - something must be wrong' or the 'she seemed depressed when we spoke, what's she hiding from me' (in truth I phoned at the wrong time and I'm reading far too much into her weary voice.

Now I think I've almost reinvented myself. My parenting skills are still used, but I'm now a listener - a sounding board. I have fun buying GC books, toys and clothing (after discussion with their Mum). I've got back to all the creativity I used to enjoy when much younger. I've got a whole room dedicated to sewing and STUFF. We go on really interesting trips and organise our days to suit us, not children. I do voluntary work and long dog walks and spend all day reading a really good book if I want to.

Life has changed, its different, but its OK and I know my girls are doing well out there and that I did a pretty OK job. That's not to say I do not drop everything when GC visit - but boy its lovely when they go home. But what's important because I'm not one of those Mums who pester and plead,(ALTHOUGH DEEP DOWN I COULD SO EASILY BE) they want to come bouncing into our home with huge grins saying things like 'we love your house Grandma' or, on one memorable visit, 'I'm having the best time EVER'.

Its a cliché I know but its all about letting go so that they WANT to come back...and be kinder to yourself, we all make mistakes, its what we do when we know we have that really matters.

Hope things get better for you, NellyBu. It's sad that you asked your son what to do, and even when he answered you, you kept on at him, again and again. It might be a good idea to tell him of your change of heart