Civil Relationships -v- Marriage

If gay people can now have both a civil partnership and a marraige then I think it's only fair straight people get both, if not then its not equal rights

As you say Lavande,many reasons for preferring CP over marriage have been explained on this thread.( oh I'm repeating myself again) . Perhaps some people do not read the whole thread.

I have posted on this thread previously but to précis: I am in a civil partnership with my partner of 25 years. We are opposite sex and live in France where couples can choose irrespective of sexual orientation how to legally register their partnership.

I was married for 20 years and it did not work for me. My partner was also previously married and it did not work for him.

About 42% of marriages end in divorce although this figure is a reduction from previous years.

One explanation for a slightly lower divorce rate is that couples are living together for longer, are more mature and many have children^ before ^they marry. These relationships are tested to some extent before marriage and therefore less vulnerable to divorce. This is the explanation reported by ONS and echoed by the Marriage Institute. I am merely reporting it.

However, those living together relationships, especially where there are children involved are not legally secured and on either death or separation there are no inheritance or benefit rights for the surviving partner or children. A civil partnership may be preferred by those couples who simply want the security of legal recognition of their relationship but without marriage.

However, the application to the Court which has prompted this case is not about testing their relationship. It's focus is discrimination and inequality.

I support civil partnerships because I do not want to be married again. There have been many other reasons already cited on this thread why marriage is not for everyone but security and peace of mind is important for most couples whatever the basis of their relationship.

I wouldn't force anyone to do anything they didn't want to do, Trisher. The choice between to marry or not to marry is just that - a choice.

I don't disagree with you about CPs offering an alternative, but personally I think that either it should be available to all couples regardless of sexual orientation (even including, possibly, platonic relationships where life and home are very much a long-term shared thing), or done away with completely now that homosexuals now have the right to marry if they wish to do so.

That's just my view, obviously, and I accept that not everyone will agree with me

But even if you are in a sexual relationship you do not have legal protection and I ask once again why would you want to force someone to marry if they do not want to?
CPs offer an alternative

Sorry, should have been MamaCaz, don't where the c went to.

Mama as, no one could have put it better. Why indeed is equality not enough? What will be next I wonder.

I simply don't get why civil partnerships continue to exist. The choice for heterosexual partnerships was, and still is, marriage or nothing. Now that homosexual couples have the right to marry, surely their choice should be exactly the same.

That said, I don't really see why you have to be in a sexual relationship with someone in order to benefit from all the legal benefits that either civil partnership or marriage bring, at least not if there are no children in the equation.

Why should you have to employ a solicitor and pay for what should be a right for a co-habiting partner? For example if a man dies without making a will the cohabiting partner has no right to inherit.
There may be no legal difference but for some there is a moral difference, for many marriage is something to be undertaken only once. Why would you want to force them to marry again?

There is no legal difference between the two, which is the point of the exercise. Hope the law does not have to change and I would certainly not sign a petition as I think it ridiculous. If you don't want marriage a solicitor can sort out the rest.

I think that the CPs should be available for anyone. Whatever the legal ruling may be there is still a cultural aspect to marriage which rules it out for many. The concept of CP is free from this. It may seem to be only a difference in terms but for many this matters. Personally one marriage was enough for me and any other relationship would have to be a legal partnership. It seems wrong that any couple who have agreed to share their lives should be prevented from creating legal safeguards for each other.

Luckylegs , there are several posts on this thread that explain people's reasons for preferring a CP to MARRIAGE.

What I don't understand is why you need both when you can marry in a Registry Office, just quietlly, no fuss. Needn't wear a ring or change your name if you don't want to, just a formality if that's what you want, no one need know, just your solicitor.

While everyone should make a Will (says a solicitor!) that in itself does not bring the inheritance tax advantages of a CM or CP. If you want those benefits you can obtain them for less than £100 by forming a legal relationship.

For heterosexual couples, why not just have a simple, no fuss registry office wedding. If same sex couples can get married in a registry office I cannot see why they should have special rights of a civil partnership. If marriage doesn't suit, go to a solicitor to sort out a will that respects your wishes.

I think any "difference" between CM and CP is more in the social range - people think of those in a CM as "married," but not those who have a CP. The "legal rights and responsibilities" are, apparently, the same, as mentioned above. It's just the way people look at the 2 situations that's different, IMO.

Oh well. Win some lose some. Sigh.

Well then, I agree with Mr Bumble!

Judgment has just been handed down in the High Court case of Steinfield v Sec of State for Education [2016] EWHC 128 and it failed at the first hurdle. Counsel for the applicant had to agree there "is no substantial difference between civil marriage (CM) and civil partnerships (CP) in terms of the legal rights and responsibilities created".

Just because same sex couples have two methods of creating a legal relationship it does not mean heterosexual couples are discriminated against because they only have one method, the judge found "no obvious disadvantage" and there would be an unnecessary expenditure of large amounts of tax payers money (and Parliamentary time and effort) in changing the law.

As a lawyer I agree there is no "need" to change the law.

The arguments in the case currently being considered by Mrs Justice Andrews seem to turn on whether denying heterosexual couples the ability to register a civil partnership is "outside the ambit" of Art 8 HRA 1998 because it does not have sufficient impact on their right to family life.
I can see the force of that argument, because a successful challenge could lead to other ones, such as unmarried sisters wanting a CP to benefit from the inheritance tax spousal exemption. They could try to argue if one sister left her half in a big house to the other, she might have to sell the house to pay the tax and that her infringed Art.8 rights (and probably Art.14 anti-discrimination), although difficult to argue the right to a family life with someone who has died?
The judge is taking time to consider her judgment, understandably.

As Lavande says, a CP must take place in suitably licensed premises, basically anywhere you could get married and the ceremony is conducted by someone licensed to carry out marriages!

Ninathenana, I believe that a civil partnership in the UK can be registered at broadly the same venues as a civil marriage. Here in France, as a heterosexual couple, our CP was registered at what would be the equivalent of a County Court. We celebrated elsewhere afterwards.

Not for us- happily married for nearly 45 years. but what is wrong with giving people the choice? Why is it 'irritating you' or upsetting you. Live and let live, you say? And respect for others. Why should choice be a problem to anyone?

So where does a CP take place

I could be over thinking this. Or they are.